Re-wiring Lawn Mower Lights Question
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Re-wiring Lawn Mower Lights Question
I've been repairing a used lawn mower I bought and have finally got it cutting grass , but the last thing I want to do is get the lights working. I cleaned all wire harness connections, cleaned up the ignition switch connections which turns the lights on, checked for loose wires and still no power to the lights, so here is what I plan to do...hardwire the lights directly to the 12V (I think) battery.
I tested the lights by connecting wires to the battery and the lights work, so I plan on attaching a switch on the dashboard and hardwiring the lights directly to the battery terminals so I can turn the lights on with the switch. My question is, should I have a fuse inline between the battery and lights? And if so, what size fuse and should it be between the battery and switch, or switch and lights?
Additional Information:
- Light bulbs only show ""GE 1156F Hungary AS"
- Manual says battery is (should be) 25 AMP/HR, 190 Min. CCA.
- The actual battery only shows "SB-30, 230 CCA, 290 CA, SPR"
- The manual states that the tractor has a charging system and says "your tractor is equipped with a special alternator system. The lights are not connected to the battery, but have their own electrical source. Because of this, the brightness of the lights will change with engine speed."
- There is a 30amp fuse between the battery and ignition switch (sequence goes Battery hot/red>Solenoid>30amp Fuse>Ammeter>Ignition switch.
So since the tractor apparently charges the battery (although I have to connect the battery charger for a few minutes to get the tractor to start immediately...maybe the battery is farting out), hopefully by hardwiring the lights they won't drain the battery. </fingers crossed>
Hope there is enough information.
Thanks in advance!
Tom
I tested the lights by connecting wires to the battery and the lights work, so I plan on attaching a switch on the dashboard and hardwiring the lights directly to the battery terminals so I can turn the lights on with the switch. My question is, should I have a fuse inline between the battery and lights? And if so, what size fuse and should it be between the battery and switch, or switch and lights?
Additional Information:
- Light bulbs only show ""GE 1156F Hungary AS"
- Manual says battery is (should be) 25 AMP/HR, 190 Min. CCA.
- The actual battery only shows "SB-30, 230 CCA, 290 CA, SPR"
- The manual states that the tractor has a charging system and says "your tractor is equipped with a special alternator system. The lights are not connected to the battery, but have their own electrical source. Because of this, the brightness of the lights will change with engine speed."
- There is a 30amp fuse between the battery and ignition switch (sequence goes Battery hot/red>Solenoid>30amp Fuse>Ammeter>Ignition switch.
So since the tractor apparently charges the battery (although I have to connect the battery charger for a few minutes to get the tractor to start immediately...maybe the battery is farting out), hopefully by hardwiring the lights they won't drain the battery. </fingers crossed>
Hope there is enough information.
Thanks in advance!
Tom
#2
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Put a DC ammeter in series between the battery and the bulbs. Turn bulbs on. Check ammeter. Make sure wire and switch are rated for that much plus some safety margin. Fuse size should be somewhere over measured amperage and under safety margin for the wire.
Otherwise the 1156 bulb is pretty common. You could probably get current requirement somewhere online or in an auto forum.
Otherwise the 1156 bulb is pretty common. You could probably get current requirement somewhere online or in an auto forum.
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Thanks for the tip!
As per this bulb chart...
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckBBAS...l/1999/185.pdf
...an 1156 bulb takes 2.10amps @12.8V. I'll bet I could get a small fuse and such at an auto parts or hardware store.
Where do you suggest I put the fuse in relation to the battery and switch?
As per this bulb chart...
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckBBAS...l/1999/185.pdf
...an 1156 bulb takes 2.10amps @12.8V. I'll bet I could get a small fuse and such at an auto parts or hardware store.
Where do you suggest I put the fuse in relation to the battery and switch?
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Thanks for the tip!
As per this bulb chart...
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckBBAS...l/1999/185.pdf
...an 1156 bulb takes 2.10amps @12.8V. I'll bet I could get a small fuse and such at an auto parts or hardware store.
Where do you suggest I put the fuse in relation to the battery and switch?
As per this bulb chart...
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckBBAS...l/1999/185.pdf
...an 1156 bulb takes 2.10amps @12.8V. I'll bet I could get a small fuse and such at an auto parts or hardware store.
Where do you suggest I put the fuse in relation to the battery and switch?
Get some #18 stranded red wire, an SPST switch rated at 10Amps, and an inline fuse holder with a 10Amp fuse.
Run the inline fuse from the (+) pole on the battery, connect your #18 wire from the inline fuse to one of the pins on the switch. From the other pin on the switch run the wire to the (+) side of the first light. Then from the same wire run to the other light (+) side.
Ground the other wire (-) from each light to the chassis of the mower.
If you can find the Switch 12Volt source from the ignition switch you can put the wire to the switch from there instead of the battery. This will save you having to run additional wire.
Good Luck
KC
#5
I think your system should work and it is what I'd do but as to what the manual says
Sounds like a magneto on the engine. What ever the source you have to wonder why. It seems like an extra cost for the manufacturer at first read but perhaps some models can without electric start and battery so the lighting system ran off the magneto. If the engine runs without battery and alternator that would confirm it. I could see the factory not changing the lighting over when the model got an electric starter upgrade. Bottom line is I'm thinking the only reason the lights weren't on the battery was a cost saving measure on the part of the manufacturer that made it with and without a battery.
.... The lights are not connected to the battery, but have their own electrical source. Because of this, the brightness of the lights will change with engine speed."
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You guys are great...thank you very much!!!
Looking at the wiring schematic it shows the power wire to the ignition switch has a 30 amp fuse inline, which I found. And I already have some vampire taps I can use to tap into that wire. That was a great idea getting the power from there.
Should I tap into the power wire between the battery and 30amp fuse, or between the 30amp fuse and ignition switch? And does it matter if I have the new 10amp fuse either between the power wire and new light switch, or immediately after the switch and in the wire going to the lights?
Looking at the wiring schematic it shows the power wire to the ignition switch has a 30 amp fuse inline, which I found. And I already have some vampire taps I can use to tap into that wire. That was a great idea getting the power from there.
Should I tap into the power wire between the battery and 30amp fuse, or between the 30amp fuse and ignition switch? And does it matter if I have the new 10amp fuse either between the power wire and new light switch, or immediately after the switch and in the wire going to the lights?
#7
If you pull power after the ignition switch the lights won't stay on when you shut off the engine. The 10-amp fuse should still be used between the ignition switch and the light switch. That way, if the lighting wires short it won't take out the 30-amp main fuse.
Ray2047 thought the dimming was due to a magneto, which would power both the lights and the engine spark. I agree.
You said the battery has to be charged to get the mower to start ... and there is no power to the lights as they are presently wired.
I wonder if the magneto failed and the mower is running off the battery?
Ray2047 thought the dimming was due to a magneto, which would power both the lights and the engine spark. I agree.
You said the battery has to be charged to get the mower to start ... and there is no power to the lights as they are presently wired.
I wonder if the magneto failed and the mower is running off the battery?
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Magneto, eh? Ugh!
Parts show an "Armature Magneto" ($40) and a "Flywheel and Ring Gear Assembly, Magneto" ($120). I don't like the sounds of the Flywheel one..but I'd guess the Armature Magneto? Is that the ignition armature of the starter?
I already have everything I need to re-wire the lights, but now ya got me wondering if the lights not working is a smaller symptom of a bigger issue, which includes the apparent failing battery. Looking on the parts website at a picture of the Armature Magneto, it looks like a simple job swapping them out. I may just go this route.
Do you know how I would test for magneto failure to see if the part needs replaced?
Parts show an "Armature Magneto" ($40) and a "Flywheel and Ring Gear Assembly, Magneto" ($120). I don't like the sounds of the Flywheel one..but I'd guess the Armature Magneto? Is that the ignition armature of the starter?
I already have everything I need to re-wire the lights, but now ya got me wondering if the lights not working is a smaller symptom of a bigger issue, which includes the apparent failing battery. Looking on the parts website at a picture of the Armature Magneto, it looks like a simple job swapping them out. I may just go this route.
Do you know how I would test for magneto failure to see if the part needs replaced?
#9
You could test by disconnecting the battery once the mower is running.
BTW, every riding mower I've owned or seen has the lights wired to the engine, not the battery. That because at low speed, the engine will not produce enough power to keep the engine running, accessories going AND battery charged when the load of lights are added. After a while, the battery would be drained.
BTW, every riding mower I've owned or seen has the lights wired to the engine, not the battery. That because at low speed, the engine will not produce enough power to keep the engine running, accessories going AND battery charged when the load of lights are added. After a while, the battery would be drained.
#10
I have never worked on a riding lawn mower but I do know a typical small engine uses a magneto to produce a high voltage discharge directly to the spark plug. In fact the sparkplug wire is a part of the magneto. I am almost certain the battery is not providing the spark as another poster suggested. You would need a high voltage coil for the battery to do that.
However the battery charging and lights may not be provided by an alternator but a second magneto that provides 12 volts. Since your parts list indicates two magnetos it would seem to confirm that. A low voltage magneto for lights and a high voltage one to provide spark.
I suspect that what you identified as an alternator is in fact a starting motor. In fact if the basic engine is also available as rope start the motor simply replaces the rope. (Years ago they actually made an attachment so you could start your lawn mower with an electric drill.)
Cable from one of those magnetos goes directly to the sparkplug. Thats the high voltage one.The one that doesn't go to the sparkplug is the twelve volt one. Once the lawn mower is running disconnect the battery and check for 12v DC to ground at the low voltage magneto.
However the battery charging and lights may not be provided by an alternator but a second magneto that provides 12 volts. Since your parts list indicates two magnetos it would seem to confirm that. A low voltage magneto for lights and a high voltage one to provide spark.
I suspect that what you identified as an alternator is in fact a starting motor. In fact if the basic engine is also available as rope start the motor simply replaces the rope. (Years ago they actually made an attachment so you could start your lawn mower with an electric drill.)
Cable from one of those magnetos goes directly to the sparkplug. Thats the high voltage one.The one that doesn't go to the sparkplug is the twelve volt one. Once the lawn mower is running disconnect the battery and check for 12v DC to ground at the low voltage magneto.
#11
Ya have to becarefull with some of the gas engine do have specal lighting circuit that why they have seprated circuit due some of the engines ingtion coil do have split circuits one for lighting coil [ if this engine do not have starting battery it will run in AC current unless it have extra lead for charging the battery will have recifer on it ]
Can you run us what engine brand it is and model number the reason why is that we do have small engine section they can able help you with this one also.
IIRC [ if my hunch is right ] the lighting circuit leads are yellow if this engine is manufactred by Briggs Strattion engine for other i think pretty close to it but not confirmed yet.
Merci,Marc
Can you run us what engine brand it is and model number the reason why is that we do have small engine section they can able help you with this one also.
IIRC [ if my hunch is right ] the lighting circuit leads are yellow if this engine is manufactred by Briggs Strattion engine for other i think pretty close to it but not confirmed yet.
Merci,Marc
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This is interesting stuff!
The engine is a Briggs & Stratton OHV 15.5hp Model #28N707 (type 0173-01) and it is on a Craftsman riding lawnmower model #917.256531.
I'm going to hit the repair manual and head out to the garage and try to identify the location of the low voltage 12V magneto. The high voltage one that goes to the spark plug is pretty easily found.
It's going to be tough removing the negative to the battery since the battery is under the seat and there is a pressure switch under the seat that supposedly shuts off the engine if it senses someone is not sitting on the seat.
The engine is a Briggs & Stratton OHV 15.5hp Model #28N707 (type 0173-01) and it is on a Craftsman riding lawnmower model #917.256531.
I'm going to hit the repair manual and head out to the garage and try to identify the location of the low voltage 12V magneto. The high voltage one that goes to the spark plug is pretty easily found.
It's going to be tough removing the negative to the battery since the battery is under the seat and there is a pressure switch under the seat that supposedly shuts off the engine if it senses someone is not sitting on the seat.
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Well I got some good news, some bad news, and some news I'm not if it is good or bad.
The good news is I got the lights working for a very short period of time. The bad news is I haven't been able to get them to work since.
First off, near the engine there have been two wires (red & black) that had been sheared off and nowhere could I find where they needed reattached. Having seen a picture of the magneto and associated red and black wires to the harness, then knowing where the magneto is located, I looked even closer and found red & black wires coming from under the flywheel that had also been sheared off, but so much so it was hard to splice wires back onto them. So I spliced the wires back together, started the engine, turned the ignition switch to the position to turn on the lights and they turned on...but only for a few seconds. Ugh!
So I did the test ray2047 suggested, I started the engine, disconnected the negative to the battery, then disconnected the harness to the low voltage magneto and the engine died. Then I started the engine again, left the battery all connected and disconnected the low voltage magneto wire harness but the engine still ran. During both tests, I used my meter and tested the hot from the low voltage magneto harness and it was giving at least 12V DC current during both tests. I'm not sure what this means other than the magneto is apparently now is giving power...but the lights still don't work, and I'm not sure if the battery is being charged.
I may just have to accept that I'll need to jump satart the mower, and not have lights when I need them. But the ammeter on the dashboard works now, if that is any consolation.
Can anybody add their assessment of the results of the positive 12V DC current test? Do you think something else farted out when the lights quit working?
Thanks!
Tom
The good news is I got the lights working for a very short period of time. The bad news is I haven't been able to get them to work since.
First off, near the engine there have been two wires (red & black) that had been sheared off and nowhere could I find where they needed reattached. Having seen a picture of the magneto and associated red and black wires to the harness, then knowing where the magneto is located, I looked even closer and found red & black wires coming from under the flywheel that had also been sheared off, but so much so it was hard to splice wires back onto them. So I spliced the wires back together, started the engine, turned the ignition switch to the position to turn on the lights and they turned on...but only for a few seconds. Ugh!
So I did the test ray2047 suggested, I started the engine, disconnected the negative to the battery, then disconnected the harness to the low voltage magneto and the engine died. Then I started the engine again, left the battery all connected and disconnected the low voltage magneto wire harness but the engine still ran. During both tests, I used my meter and tested the hot from the low voltage magneto harness and it was giving at least 12V DC current during both tests. I'm not sure what this means other than the magneto is apparently now is giving power...but the lights still don't work, and I'm not sure if the battery is being charged.
I may just have to accept that I'll need to jump satart the mower, and not have lights when I need them. But the ammeter on the dashboard works now, if that is any consolation.
Can anybody add their assessment of the results of the positive 12V DC current test? Do you think something else farted out when the lights quit working?
Thanks!
Tom
#14
Maybe I missed something but why not run the lights from the battery as planned or even a second lights only battery that you charge after use by a battery charger? If economically feasible why not replace the coil with the bad wires and go from there. (You did check your splices?) Is there a capacitor in the lighting system (pure guess)?
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You are right, ray, I was/am going to re-wire the lights. But having found both ends of the sheared wires going to the low voltage magneto, I couldn't help but splicing them together and giving it a try. Sure wish it would've worked.
In order to replace that coil I need to remove the flywheel, but to replace and put everything back together there are numerous and seemingly tedious steps to ensure the coil will work, and I'm not sure if I want to go that far...yet. It's not beyond my ability to try, just more than I want to get into at this moment.
Regarding a capacitor in the lighting system, there is a diode between the alternator and ignition switch. Between the ignition switch and diode it says "Charging System Output 3 amps @ 3600 rpm" and between the diode and alternator it says 28 volts AC min. @ 3600 rpm (charging system disconnected)". On the schematic, the lighting system wire that goes from the ignition switch to the alternator says "lighting system output 5 amps @3600 rpm" and "14 volts AC min. @ 3600 rpm (lights off)"
I'll be spending quality time with the tractor tonight and will post any progress.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Ray, I appreciate it.
Tom
In order to replace that coil I need to remove the flywheel, but to replace and put everything back together there are numerous and seemingly tedious steps to ensure the coil will work, and I'm not sure if I want to go that far...yet. It's not beyond my ability to try, just more than I want to get into at this moment.
Regarding a capacitor in the lighting system, there is a diode between the alternator and ignition switch. Between the ignition switch and diode it says "Charging System Output 3 amps @ 3600 rpm" and between the diode and alternator it says 28 volts AC min. @ 3600 rpm (charging system disconnected)". On the schematic, the lighting system wire that goes from the ignition switch to the alternator says "lighting system output 5 amps @3600 rpm" and "14 volts AC min. @ 3600 rpm (lights off)"
I'll be spending quality time with the tractor tonight and will post any progress.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Ray, I appreciate it.
Tom
#16
Hope this chart will show you some idea for which type of alternator system it have on the Briggs engine [ in fact as the listing it show 3 or 4 diffrent types ]
anyway here it the list for this engine hope it will help you some details what you are looking for.
at the same time i will get ahold of one of our members whom they dealt with this type pretty often and hope he can reply in here as well.
Merci,Marc
anyway here it the list for this engine hope it will help you some details what you are looking for.
at the same time i will get ahold of one of our members whom they dealt with this type pretty often and hope he can reply in here as well.
Merci,Marc
#17
For reference, the coversation has continued in the small engine forum here: http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=345713
I will also add that there are no tedious steps involved in replacing the alternator/stator. Just pull it off and bolt down the new one. Four 1/4" head screws hold it down. No adjustments or anything. You have to pull the engine shroud and flywheel to get to it. 10-15 minute job with the right tools.
I will also add that there are no tedious steps involved in replacing the alternator/stator. Just pull it off and bolt down the new one. Four 1/4" head screws hold it down. No adjustments or anything. You have to pull the engine shroud and flywheel to get to it. 10-15 minute job with the right tools.
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Wow, 10-15 minute job, eh? With no more than a simple replacement? I certainly can do that. But I believe the flywheel alternator/stator is working.
Last night I went out and tested the red & black wires coming form the coil and it is working. I pulled the seat disconnect and ducttaped it so I could get off the seat without the engine turning off. I got close to 30volts AC from the red wire, and now can't remember what the black was giving, but there was alot of current from it also...so hopefully it was *supposed* to be giving current.
Somehow the lights kicked on without me doing anything, and stayed on for quite some time. While on, I tried wiggling every wire connection between the lights and coil but could not get the lights to turn off (trying to mimic an loose wire). But wouldn't you know it, as soon as I thought everything was working well I put the seat switch back together and the lights farted out soon afterward of turning the the engine on. I don't think it is the seat switch, but something is giving out. And while out, I again wiggled all wire connections but could not get the lights to turn back on.
From what I've determined, the coil is working. And the battery has allowed the engine to start up without jumping now. However, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever need to use the lights but I want them to work nonetheless.
Last night I went out and tested the red & black wires coming form the coil and it is working. I pulled the seat disconnect and ducttaped it so I could get off the seat without the engine turning off. I got close to 30volts AC from the red wire, and now can't remember what the black was giving, but there was alot of current from it also...so hopefully it was *supposed* to be giving current.
Somehow the lights kicked on without me doing anything, and stayed on for quite some time. While on, I tried wiggling every wire connection between the lights and coil but could not get the lights to turn off (trying to mimic an loose wire). But wouldn't you know it, as soon as I thought everything was working well I put the seat switch back together and the lights farted out soon afterward of turning the the engine on. I don't think it is the seat switch, but something is giving out. And while out, I again wiggled all wire connections but could not get the lights to turn back on.
From what I've determined, the coil is working. And the battery has allowed the engine to start up without jumping now. However, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever need to use the lights but I want them to work nonetheless.
Last edited by Buddur; 05-20-08 at 05:10 AM.
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Guess who got the lights to work tonight???
As in the other thread stated below, I followed a procedure for testing the stator wires for current and found there was some. Then tested the lighting wireharness at the hood and found current there also, and figured the problem was downstream. Turned out to be the harness itself, there was a loose wire connection on the hood side...and now I have lights.
I'm out about $8 for the switch and the fuse holder (I had the other items) but it was well worth it simply for the satisfaction of getting the lights to work how they are supposed to.
This has definitly been a "Zen and the art of riding lawn mower maintenance" experience for me. I'm not sure if I'm going to follow through and hard wire the lights to the battery now, but at least I know how to now and have the parts if I ever need to in the future.
Thanks for all the advice, guys!
Tom
As in the other thread stated below, I followed a procedure for testing the stator wires for current and found there was some. Then tested the lighting wireharness at the hood and found current there also, and figured the problem was downstream. Turned out to be the harness itself, there was a loose wire connection on the hood side...and now I have lights.
I'm out about $8 for the switch and the fuse holder (I had the other items) but it was well worth it simply for the satisfaction of getting the lights to work how they are supposed to.
This has definitly been a "Zen and the art of riding lawn mower maintenance" experience for me. I'm not sure if I'm going to follow through and hard wire the lights to the battery now, but at least I know how to now and have the parts if I ever need to in the future.
Thanks for all the advice, guys!
Tom
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Well, I ended up wireing the lights directly to the battery, regardless that I got them to work from the alternator.
Having to cut the grass into the night last week I got a chance to see how well the lights work from the alternator and having their brightness fluctuate kind of got on my nerves. And heck, I already had the parts, so I wired them up to be able to turn on even when the engine is off. Seeing the constant brightness, I can't believe they were never wired that way to begin with.
This configuration did however alter the seat shut off. I was able to lock the brake on and get off the mower (seat) and not have the engine shut off (without tht brake locked on, the engine would shut down when I got off the seat). And now the engine shuts off regardless if I have the brake locked...but the engine fires up right away now that the battery is always charging so it doesn't matter.
A big THANKS to everyone for assisting me with this project!!!
Having to cut the grass into the night last week I got a chance to see how well the lights work from the alternator and having their brightness fluctuate kind of got on my nerves. And heck, I already had the parts, so I wired them up to be able to turn on even when the engine is off. Seeing the constant brightness, I can't believe they were never wired that way to begin with.
This configuration did however alter the seat shut off. I was able to lock the brake on and get off the mower (seat) and not have the engine shut off (without tht brake locked on, the engine would shut down when I got off the seat). And now the engine shuts off regardless if I have the brake locked...but the engine fires up right away now that the battery is always charging so it doesn't matter.
A big THANKS to everyone for assisting me with this project!!!