First, no fan, then fan but no condensor
#1
First, no fan, then fan but no condensor
At first I noticed that the fan wasn't working, but the condensor apparently was as the return vent was very cold. I'm guessing that the condensor was working, but the fan wasn't working, so the cold air was backing up into the return air shaft.
Each of the last two years (my only with central a/c), I've had to replace the contactor, for $120 each. So, I bought one on my own and hooked it up, and the fan now works, but apparently not the condensor?
If I hooked it up wrong, would this occur? It's a double-pole, which looks identical one way or the other. Is there a difference? If not, I'm sure I hooked it up right, as I removed each wire one at a time and attached it to the new contactor.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, I've been told that it's highly unusual for the contactor to pit and arc enough to require replacement so frequently; what could be causing this? Even if it wasn't the problem this time (yet?), it was required each of the previous two years. Thanks!
Each of the last two years (my only with central a/c), I've had to replace the contactor, for $120 each. So, I bought one on my own and hooked it up, and the fan now works, but apparently not the condensor?
If I hooked it up wrong, would this occur? It's a double-pole, which looks identical one way or the other. Is there a difference? If not, I'm sure I hooked it up right, as I removed each wire one at a time and attached it to the new contactor.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, I've been told that it's highly unusual for the contactor to pit and arc enough to require replacement so frequently; what could be causing this? Even if it wasn't the problem this time (yet?), it was required each of the previous two years. Thanks!
#2
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
When you say points in the outside contactor Most of the time its ants and bugs that get up in there. It helps to bug spray around the outside condenser now and then.
On the fan is this the inside fan ???? or out side ? when calling for cool can you give it a push and see if it runs.
When you say condenser that is like the whole thing outside there. You have a fan in it and a compressor. This is what the contactor will turn on both at the same time. On the inside fan or blower that will have a relay that turns it on. Post back in this same post.
ED
On the fan is this the inside fan ???? or out side ? when calling for cool can you give it a push and see if it runs.
When you say condenser that is like the whole thing outside there. You have a fan in it and a compressor. This is what the contactor will turn on both at the same time. On the inside fan or blower that will have a relay that turns it on. Post back in this same post.
ED
#3
Should I change my nym to "clueless beyond recognition"? Okay, didn't realize there was an indoor fan! I was/am only referring to the outdoor one. I'll try again here:
-This AM noticed that it was warm; 3 degrees warmer than the setting, yet the return air "vent" (place where the filter is inside), was COLD. I checked the outdoor fan, and it wasn't going. I turned everything off and replaced the contactor (can it indeed be put in either way?)
-After replacing, at first the outdoor fan didn't come on; I had it on ON, as opposed to AUTO, with the temp/ac setting to OFF.
-Upon setting the A/C and Fan on the thermostat to Auto, the Outdoor Fan came on, but it didn't cool off at all. This continues, and I now recognize that though the Outdoor Fan is on, there is no air being circulated in the house. This is whether I have it on AUTO (since the temp is higher than the setting) or ON.
-I checked the contacts of the old contactor: I didn't take it all apart, which would be necessary to check for pitting, but one side (two contacts on each side) has both contacts very black. If that means anything. Just occured to me: if it can be put in either way, and only one side's two contacts are being used, and arced/pitted, can I simply flip it over?
Thanks again for your help, and patience!
-This AM noticed that it was warm; 3 degrees warmer than the setting, yet the return air "vent" (place where the filter is inside), was COLD. I checked the outdoor fan, and it wasn't going. I turned everything off and replaced the contactor (can it indeed be put in either way?)
-After replacing, at first the outdoor fan didn't come on; I had it on ON, as opposed to AUTO, with the temp/ac setting to OFF.
-Upon setting the A/C and Fan on the thermostat to Auto, the Outdoor Fan came on, but it didn't cool off at all. This continues, and I now recognize that though the Outdoor Fan is on, there is no air being circulated in the house. This is whether I have it on AUTO (since the temp is higher than the setting) or ON.
-I checked the contacts of the old contactor: I didn't take it all apart, which would be necessary to check for pitting, but one side (two contacts on each side) has both contacts very black. If that means anything. Just occured to me: if it can be put in either way, and only one side's two contacts are being used, and arced/pitted, can I simply flip it over?
Thanks again for your help, and patience!
#4
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
Upon setting the A/C and Fan on the thermostat to Auto, the Outdoor Fan came on, but it didn't cool off at all. This continues, and I now recognize that though the Outdoor Fan is on, there is no air being circulated in the house. This is whether I have it on AUTO (since the temp is higher than the setting) or ON.
Will the indoor fan come on if you turn the fan on at the tstat????
If you set the tstat to cool and the fan to auto at the tstat. Push the tstat down to 60o what all do you get to come on ? The inside fan ,the outside fan ,and the compressor?
ED
#5
The outside fan turns on, and I believe the compressor, as it does get cool at the return air vent, but the inside one doesn't (I guessing that as there's no air being circulated).
And I just realized a sound that I hear occasionally, and now just after trying to turn it on. The sound of the indoor fan shutting off. It seemed to come on for a second, and then shut off, with a bit of a "whoosh" sound, though I didn't feel air.
I now tried it again as I was standing next to the section in the garage (I believe with the fan in), and nothing happened, though.
And I just realized a sound that I hear occasionally, and now just after trying to turn it on. The sound of the indoor fan shutting off. It seemed to come on for a second, and then shut off, with a bit of a "whoosh" sound, though I didn't feel air.
I now tried it again as I was standing next to the section in the garage (I believe with the fan in), and nothing happened, though.
#6
I found a website with troubleshooting hints for an indoor blower assembly. It's at: http://www.longviewweb.com/blowoff.htm
Does this look like a good way to approach things, or any other thoughts? Thanks!
Does this look like a good way to approach things, or any other thoughts? Thanks!
#7
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
Yes go for it you have to find out if its the motor. Dont run the outside unit till you get this fixed.
If you turn the fan to fan on at the tstat and push the blower wheel and it runs then it can be just the capacitor.
ED
If you turn the fan to fan on at the tstat and push the blower wheel and it runs then it can be just the capacitor.
ED
#8
It labors, a lot, when activated. It will a turn a bit (literally a partial revolution), then slow, then a little more, then slow or stop completely. Pushing it doesn't do anything once it's stopped. Any thoughts with this additional info? In the meantime I'll try to follow the steps from that website.
#10
I found a new motor, Carrier also (actually, though my unit is Carrier, there's a GE sticker on the motor), for $348. Is this reasonable, and any opinion on using another brand motor that may be cheaper? Or a recommended online dealer? Thanks again for all the great help!
#13
Thanks again for all the help. Now I've got a few more problems: 1st, how do I get the motor out of the flywheel? I removed a setscrew, if that's what it is, from the shaft on the other side of the flywheel. Do I now just force it out by pulling/pounding, or am I missing something else? Parts places won't help, for fear of litigation, I guess.
I'm also trying to find another brand of motor, but all the drop-down menus have choices that I'm not sure of the answer. After putting in what I know from the motor label is it's a GE: 1/2 HP, 0-1400 RPM, 7.7/4.3 AMPS, 120/240 volts; a search by the GE model # brings up nothing. Here are the other choices I need to make:
Motor Type: capacitor start or Split Phase
Enclosure: ODP or TEFC
NEMA/IEC Phrame: 48Y, 48YZ, 56 or 56C
On the subject of the capacitor, is there one to replace, or is it built-in? I don't see one anywhere.
If it helps, I have a Carrier FV4ANF005. THANKS!!!
I'm also trying to find another brand of motor, but all the drop-down menus have choices that I'm not sure of the answer. After putting in what I know from the motor label is it's a GE: 1/2 HP, 0-1400 RPM, 7.7/4.3 AMPS, 120/240 volts; a search by the GE model # brings up nothing. Here are the other choices I need to make:
Motor Type: capacitor start or Split Phase
Enclosure: ODP or TEFC
NEMA/IEC Phrame: 48Y, 48YZ, 56 or 56C
On the subject of the capacitor, is there one to replace, or is it built-in? I don't see one anywhere.
If it helps, I have a Carrier FV4ANF005. THANKS!!!
#14
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
The whole blower should come out of the unit.then the motor mount off of the whole blower. AT this time the motor should slide out of the blower wheel. Call around to some HVAC shops there and see what they have for cost on that motor. Mark down how all the wires are in there.
ED
ED
#15
I had pulled out the fan assembly, if that's the term, but the motor wouldn't "slide" out of the flywheel. Apparently I just need to force it out. Any suggestion re: that? I was cautioned against pounding from the shaft end, lest I mushroom it out and it won't fit out then.
I finally took it, the whole assembly, to a local parts shop, and they had to call around, and ... $489!! They say that it's $460 to contractors. He wasn't the most knowledgeable, but the lady he spoke with where he'd have gotten it said it retails for over $600. Yes, the motor alone. On the label it does say it's an "ECM Programmable Motor", if that means anything.
Also, couldn't find a capacitor on it or attached to it. The guy was looking for a reference to a capacitor on the label, without success. So is it likely inside the motor, which helps add to the cost? Anyone know if I can substitute on non-fancy dancy motor for this one?! Thanks.
I finally took it, the whole assembly, to a local parts shop, and they had to call around, and ... $489!! They say that it's $460 to contractors. He wasn't the most knowledgeable, but the lady he spoke with where he'd have gotten it said it retails for over $600. Yes, the motor alone. On the label it does say it's an "ECM Programmable Motor", if that means anything.
Also, couldn't find a capacitor on it or attached to it. The guy was looking for a reference to a capacitor on the label, without success. So is it likely inside the motor, which helps add to the cost? Anyone know if I can substitute on non-fancy dancy motor for this one?! Thanks.
#16
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware, The First State
Posts: 12,682
Received 41 Upvotes
on
39 Posts
ECM Motor
That explains the cost. They are EXPENSIVE. This is a variable speed motor, not your typical multi-speed. At this point I suggest you get someone to check the motor rather than shelling out the big bucks for a new one. Some of the ECM motors are two part, the control section & the actual motor. Older ones were one piece. Look on GE's web site. They used to have a test procedure for ECM motors.
#17
Thanks for the help. Couldn't find anything on the GE website for testing it, though I don't know that I could repair it anyway.
I tried Grainger and Johnstone, and neither sell ECM motors. The Grainger guy hadn't even heard of them, and Johnstone told me to check with Carrier... who told me to call a dealer, who told me I had to schedule a service call...
Unfortunately, the one place I've found (expertappliance.com) that has it online, and which is much cheaper than I'd pay at the local shop, can't tell me ANY specifics of it, other than it's OEM recommended. They also list a capacitor as being available for it, but the guy said that that could mean that you can buy just it, but that one does come internally with the motor. He also assured me that the parts dept. guys who fill the order would catch it and not send the capacitor if one comes internally. But you can't return electrical parts.
Of course, he also said that there isn't usually a capacitor on blower motors.
-Is this true? And, to confirm that there isn't one:
-If there were, would it be listed on the motor label?
There wasn't one hard-wired to the motor; the motor had two harnesses, one of which has a brown wire, but it simply goes into a connector for the heating unit.
The only thing I see that looks like a capacitor is on top, in (I believe) the heating unit. Could they be sharing this one? And if so, should I replace it ($88.00!)
I called the local guy again, and he said a lot of variable speed motors don't have caps, and that he doesn't think there'd even be one internally. So, the one that the website has listed is probably the one for the heating unit?
I gotta get this ordered; my kid's allergies are terrible, but we need the windows/doors open at night (Florida).
Thanks again for any and all help!
I tried Grainger and Johnstone, and neither sell ECM motors. The Grainger guy hadn't even heard of them, and Johnstone told me to check with Carrier... who told me to call a dealer, who told me I had to schedule a service call...
Unfortunately, the one place I've found (expertappliance.com) that has it online, and which is much cheaper than I'd pay at the local shop, can't tell me ANY specifics of it, other than it's OEM recommended. They also list a capacitor as being available for it, but the guy said that that could mean that you can buy just it, but that one does come internally with the motor. He also assured me that the parts dept. guys who fill the order would catch it and not send the capacitor if one comes internally. But you can't return electrical parts.
Of course, he also said that there isn't usually a capacitor on blower motors.
-Is this true? And, to confirm that there isn't one:
-If there were, would it be listed on the motor label?
There wasn't one hard-wired to the motor; the motor had two harnesses, one of which has a brown wire, but it simply goes into a connector for the heating unit.
The only thing I see that looks like a capacitor is on top, in (I believe) the heating unit. Could they be sharing this one? And if so, should I replace it ($88.00!)
I called the local guy again, and he said a lot of variable speed motors don't have caps, and that he doesn't think there'd even be one internally. So, the one that the website has listed is probably the one for the heating unit?
I gotta get this ordered; my kid's allergies are terrible, but we need the windows/doors open at night (Florida).
Thanks again for any and all help!
#18
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
With all this on the blower motor and you said you had to put in new contactor for the last two years then you said "FLORIDA". Have to ask do you have a time delay on the unit. If not put one on for sure. With the electric power we have down here .Most of the compressors they lose here is do to that . With this start stop start of power. I have time delays on the AC , fridge and deep freeze . If you dont the poor units will ride their klixon and start and stop. Also for the PC I have the cheap and smalls battery back up that I can hear kick in for a sec some times one or two times a day.
My .02 cents
ED electric power
My .02 cents
ED electric power
#19
Thanks, Ed! If you haven't guessed, I'm pretty ignorant of electronics, so don't even know if I have delays on, so I'm guessing not. Been here 3 years, and the lady before probably didn't. Where in the line would it be located? I'll have to do some reading up on how/where to put them on the other appliances.
Yeah, the power here is a joke. We're always getting power outages, as you say sometimes just for a second. Thanks again.
BTW: I went ahead and ordered the $348 one. Got an email back that they thought they had one in stock but went to pull it and it wasn't. Oh yeah, and they added, "Please note: There has been a price increase on this item to us which we must pass on to you. The correct price of this item is $939.29." No, that's not a typo. Unbelievable. So, back to the local guy, who said he was getting it from Carrier; contractor price $460; mine $488. Aargghh....
Yeah, the power here is a joke. We're always getting power outages, as you say sometimes just for a second. Thanks again.
BTW: I went ahead and ordered the $348 one. Got an email back that they thought they had one in stock but went to pull it and it wasn't. Oh yeah, and they added, "Please note: There has been a price increase on this item to us which we must pass on to you. The correct price of this item is $939.29." No, that's not a typo. Unbelievable. So, back to the local guy, who said he was getting it from Carrier; contractor price $460; mine $488. Aargghh....
#20
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote
on
1 Post
Dont know where to tell you to find the time delay if you have it. Some times can be in the inside unit or in the out side unit. Look at the 24 wire from the tstat to the units. Most of the time it would be in the 24V wire some where.
The ICM kind cost about $15 some you can set for how long off like 3, 5 ,10 Min. off others are on time restart. Its like the power has to be back up to 18V on this one to come back on line #ICM205B this is for 24V Id put one on the low 24V to the fan control and one on the 24V to the outside unit. Here is what could have killed your motor
For the fridge you would have to wire it in and set up a plug for it #ICM203B this one will work on 110V- 220V.
lots of time I go to the fridge and the lights are off and go back and they are back on. I didnt ever know the power went off and back on. its that fast.
ED
The ICM kind cost about $15 some you can set for how long off like 3, 5 ,10 Min. off others are on time restart. Its like the power has to be back up to 18V on this one to come back on line #ICM205B this is for 24V Id put one on the low 24V to the fan control and one on the 24V to the outside unit. Here is what could have killed your motor
For the fridge you would have to wire it in and set up a plug for it #ICM203B this one will work on 110V- 220V.
lots of time I go to the fridge and the lights are off and go back and they are back on. I didnt ever know the power went off and back on. its that fast.
ED
#21
Member
Variable frequency drives
I don't know who thought up this idea for an AC but they should have shot the guy. I had one like that on a Lennox and couldn't believe the price on it. Ouch!
#22
Don't Repair It Yourself
Jackie
This motor needs three parts to run the control board the motor end cap and the motor itself. This is not a do it yopurself repair and a pro should test it and diagnosis the problem correctly. The diagnostic control that I have costs me 200.00 to test the motor, control, and end cap. I do repeat that this can be an expensive repair if you don,t diagnosis the right part because they won,t take a part back if you install it and it still don,t work.
This motor needs three parts to run the control board the motor end cap and the motor itself. This is not a do it yopurself repair and a pro should test it and diagnosis the problem correctly. The diagnostic control that I have costs me 200.00 to test the motor, control, and end cap. I do repeat that this can be an expensive repair if you don,t diagnosis the right part because they won,t take a part back if you install it and it still don,t work.