Bread Machine

I have a Black & Decker B2005 Breadmaker that has a problem.
The only time the heating element comes on is during the "bake" cycle.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what the problem might be?

Thanks

Good Evening, RAlan:

I will research your question and come back with an answer tomorrow at this time.

Smokey

Good Morning, RAlan:

I assume that the only time the heating element works is when you put it on the bake cycle. This means that you are not able to program the unit to run with the digital clock
to "Set And Forget" the unit.

Obviously, the clock has a switching circuit that activates at a predetermined time. I would, therefore, encourage you to check this switching circuit for a failure.

Since the unit has a one year warranty, is there any chance you can get the manufacturer involved in this repair? The list price of the unit is about $130 and would expect Black and Decker to support this piece of equipment.

Smokey

Thanks for the reply Smokey.
First off, on my post re the TRIAC, that part of the circuit
seems OK.
Regarding the main problem, perhaps I wasn't clear on the details.
If I put the machine on anything but "bake" (grain, etc) the "preheat" or the "rise" cycles will not enage the heating element. If I let it go through these cyles until it gets to the "bake" cycle (at about 50 minutes to go), at that point the heating element comes on and cycles to bake properly.
Also, if I select "Bake" or "Jam" mode, the heating element comes on right away and cycles properly.
I have taken it apart and removed the wire to the heating element and am finding that sometimes the relay cycles and sends AC to the element terminal.
The machine is about 2 years old so I don't think the warantee is good.
The local shop essentially told me to forget about it.
I would like to find either the schematic for this machine or just a schematic on how these machine operate in general.

Thanks

Good Afternoon, RAlan:

I don't approve of technicians telling you to junk the item. It is true that it may not be cost effective to repair but the customer should make that decision.

I suggest you contact B&D's customer service line and see if you can get a diagram of the circuitry. You can find them at http://www.blackanddecker.com/default.asp

After all, it doesn't hurt to ask, does it? What's the worst they can say? No? But B&D has been customer oriented and think they will treat you right.

Smokey

Thanks for your help Smokey. I have e-mailed B.
If I don't have any luck there, do you know of any books that
would have information on bread machines?

There are books on every subject these days. You might have a look at this site:
http://www.coolmemes.com/books/5/bk5361.htm

They review all the latest Do-It-Yourself books and the list is quite extensive. One of my favorites is put out by Readers Digest. For the novice, it is quite informative.

Smokey

Thanks for the book info Smokey.
I think I have found the problem with the bread machine.
There is a heat sensor (thermistor?), and when I hit it with "cold spray", the element powers-up.
I have ignored this device before because it would also sense during the "bake" cycle.
Now my problem is to find-out where to get a new part. I have e-mail B, so maybe they will have some ideas.

Good Afternoon, RAlan:

Congratulations on your find. Are there any numbers on the unit or is there a color involved? Perhaps I can help you to track it to component level.

Smokey

Well Smaokey, the thermistor was encapulated in epoxy, but I got it out. The device is about 3/8" long, very small in circumference, and is orange with a clear band running around the middle, but no numbers.When cold (room temperature), it reads about 200K, and goes down to about 100K with heat.
I'm going to take to the local B dealer and see what they can do. I though of trying at the local electronics shop, but not knowing its specs, it would be difficult to substitute.

Good Evening, RAlan:

You have the right idea but what you have is a thermal fuse, a fuse that protects the system from over temperature.
As to its value, that changes from one manufacturer to the next. Best to talk to B&D and see if you can get an exact replacement. Better yet, buy two and keep one in your junk drawer for the next time.

Smokey

Good evening, Smokey

Thanks for straightening me out on the device.
I hope that a new one will fix it, as it seems stange that the machine would operate on "bake" but not on other modes.
I tried shorting the device and it just hangs-up the system, so the voltage dropped by the fuse is quite critical to the control circuitry. I will see what I can find out tomorrow from the local store that deals in Black and Decker appliances. I also have an e-mail into Black & Decker.
I'll let you know the outcome.

Good Morning, RAlan:
Yes, it is a critical component. I have seen them change value internally in previous failures in microwave ovens and such and give weird indications. As a technician, you have a tendency to overlook them because they are not shorted nor are they open. The color of the component determines the range of resistances of the component and if the range has changed, it is impossible to determine without a diagram.

One hint when installing a new one: heatsink the leads when you solder it in. The heat from a soldering iron can corrupt them.

Keep us in the loop on this one. I am interested in the resolution.

Smokey

Hello Smokey,
Well it looks like I have exhausted all my sources to get this fuse. It seems like the parts distributor for Black & Decker no longer support this Breadmaker. One of the local small appliance stores here said they might be able to help me if I knew the temperature range. Unfortunately there is no temperature range on the fuse, but there are some numbers on the connector from the fuse to the PC Board. Without the schematic it quite difficult to troubleshoot. There is another device that is in the AC line that also goes to the PC Board. When I meter this device, it reads about 0 ohms hot or cold. The fact that that the thermal fuse changes value, and causes the machine to operate, leads me to believe it is this fuse. I was reading somewhere that these fuses open up completely when they are overheated, and must be replaced like a normal fuse.
Thanks for sticking with me on this.

Might want to try a place like Inland Electronics for such parts:

http://www.inlandelectronics.com

Thanks for the reply Joe. I tried the URL you suggested but it didn't work. I did a search for Inland Electronic, and came up with http://www.inland-electronics.com. Unfortunately this didn't work either.

Good Morning, RAlan:

Here's a site with links all over the world for appliance repairs and parts. Maybe you will get lucky with one of them:
http://a-1appliance.com/links.html


Smokey

Good Afternoon Smokey,

Thanks for the web page for parts.
I thought I'd found a parts place for the fuse but the company just informed me that unless the device has a temperature range stamped on it, it is not a thermal fuse. I can get the service manual from them, but I'm still
not sure if the part is available even if I have the part number.

Me again, Smokey:

I got thinking about what the parts distributor said about the thermal fuse. I had a look at the device that is in series with the AC, and that is a fuse with a temperature on it.
The other device must be some kind of sensor that tells the control circuitry when to cycle the heating element on and off. It has a small DC voltage across it which changes with temperature change. I will take this sensor into the local small parts store and see if they can help me.
Once again, thanks for your help

Smokey is standing by. Let me know if we can be of further assistance.

[hrogers]

Hi Smokey,
Forgive my newbie ignorance. I just joined, and could find tons of information on posting, what is and is not allowed, details galore. . . but not one piece of information about how to ORIGINATE a thread, or post for the first time. I was able to figure out how to reply to a posting however, so here I am, even if I'm not exactly where I want to be. Here's my question:
I bought a Franklin Chef breadmaker/toster oven from a friend in like-new condition. It is an older model, but he only used a few times. I made a couple of loaves quite successfully. On the third attempt I noticed that the paddle was stalled, while the motor was running. I pulled the plug, unloaded the bread mixture, and looked into the bottom. Simple diagnosis. The belt was shot, due to age-deterioration. One spot was now completely devoid of rubber where the motor pulley had done its work, while the machine was stalled. I called Franklin Chef and was told, in effect, that they were very sorry that my tires had worn out, but my only option now was to buy a new car. I have checked around, and have been completely unsuccessful in locating a belt. I have all the specs on it. It is a "poly-V" belt with 5 ridges and 4 grooves. Measured length is 28.25 inches (717.55 mm), width is .322 inches (8.11 mm). The machine model number is FBMA2000, but it is discontinued. It would be a shame to throw a perfectly great running car with 5000 miles on it onto the scrap heap because the tires are cracked, don't you think? What I'm hoping for as a pointer to a place that deals in a great many types of belts, to see if I can match this one up. Any suggestions?

Thanks

hrogers

[buzsaw34]

I just used Google to check out locations for drive belts. I might suggest you do the same and try rewording your inquiry to get the answer that may help you.

I am currently trying to debug problems with a West Bend Model 41085 bread machine and have to go back into it one more time to locate the "clunking" noise when in the knead cycle. I have an idea that the drive belt might be the cause of that noise.

When I got it, the bread pan had one of the two shafts for the knead paddles frozen. I also found the temp sensor for the cold alarm had the two pin socket broken loose on the printed circuit board and required bridging the socket to make connection.

It is a challenge but I think I'm learning from it. If anyone has been down this road before I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Buzsaw34