Mouse in house - scratching in wall and ceiling

[The Roach Posse]

Man, these problems just don't want to go away.

Asmack - just when you think you're all done with these things they come back and bite you on the @$$. I would assume by the amount of activity that you've heard recently that your problem is almost solved. Like I've said before, killing 97 out of a hundred mice is easy, but it takes some work to get the last few. Hang in there. I know you've been pretty patient up till now.

Mebbie - I don't know if those glueboards back there will do anything. You've told me before I think that they've had traps in your place before and never caught anything to this day. Instead of putting traps actually inside your place, maybe they should try to inspect and place some traps/bait in the void areas.(walls, ceiling, etc.)

I haven't been on in a while and was hoping that both of your problems would be solved by now.

Good luck guys,

Jay

[asmack]

The exterminator called me today and told me that he has been coming every week to put more poison and traps. He said that the mice are definitely eating the poison. He said that the problem is much more widespread than we first thought. He has examined a few other units similar to mine and has found gaps in the same place: under the stairs and above the front entrances. He also has found evidence of mice in these areas. However, since there are more than a hundred units in our complex, the problem is potentially huge. That's probably why he hasn't gotten back to me because he's so busy.

He also said that I have shy or reluctant neighbors because he has found tons of evidence of mice in their units even though they haven't reported seeing any. Some of them know they have seen mice but have either downplayed it or not reported it. He said that most of these neighbors have pet food lying around, which undoubtedly contributes to the problem. He also has seen evidence of cannibalism: mice eating other mice. Yuck!

He also said the property manager has been extremely busy dealing with this but is keeping quiet until all this is sorted out. I don't know how to interpret this. Needless to say, I'm disappointed the property manager didn't tell me that the problem is more widespread. It seems like everything is hush-hush for now, whereas I want to make the problem known to as many people as I can in order to emphasize the significance of the situation.

Anyway, the noises go on, loud as ever (though not as frequent as the peak period in March).

Hi asmack --

It is great that you brought this problem to the attention of the property management people and the exterminator. If you had not discovered the gaps under the stairs, they would not have known they had such a widespread problem on their hands.

If your property management company is like mine, I suspect that they are trying to figure out how to "resolve" the problem in the cheapest possible way... When I first reported my problem to my property management company, they didn't do anything about it until I complained to someone on the board, who didn't do anything about it until he himself heard scratching on his walls. Even though I sometimes see a mouse or two out in the common area, thank goodness there are no longer sounds inside my unit.

I don't know why your neighbors haven't done anything about it, but I would definitely spread the word -- especially to your neighbors who are vocal and not afraid to push the property management people into action. There is a good chance that they won't do any more than they have to, unless people complain to them and force them to do something about it.

Good luck!

[asmack]

Well, after 16 months of silence, the scratching noises are back.

To make matters more complicated, the property management company has changed, so this means I will have to start ALL OVER again in explaining this situation.

And to add more grief to my life, I have a new next door neighbor whose tiny dogs are the absolute LOUDEST dogs I have ever heard in my life. I've already complained many times to the new property management (and to the local SPCA), but no one seems to care or is interested in hearing my plight. This lack of interest in helping me on the part of the new property management does not bode well when I try to explain the more recent rodent noises in my ceiling.

[Mcmath512]

Asmack, Mebbie, GetMiceOut -- did anyone ever solve this problem? I had this same issue for a few years and then it went away, for about 6 years. It left the same time my neighbors with dogs moved. Now it's back. I nearly had a breakdown today.

DID ANYONE EVER SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

I, too, am in a townhouse and the mice (we know they are mice from before and they are very loud) are not IN the house but in the ceiling and there is no crawl space.

WHAT HAPPENED? CAN ANYONE HELP ME BEFORE I LOSE IT AGAIN. THIS PROBLEM SENT ME OVER THE EDGE THE LAST TIME. PLEASE HELP -- ANYONE -- IF YOU CAN. THANKS!!!

[asmack]

Mcmath,

I sincerely sympathize with your situation as I have lived it myself. It became a truly hellish experience for me, and even when I tried to explain it to others, all I got back was a lot of weak responses, especially from the property management who thought I was hearing pipes and stuff in the ceiling and blowing things way out of proportion. Give me a break! Even after I played them the recordings, they still took their sweet time responding with a solution.

But I was persistent and nagged them every day. I emailed them fresh new recordings whenever possible, clogging their email inbox. I finally learned to bypass the property management and deal directly with the exterminator instead. It is my opinion that most property managers where I live are completely and utterly useless when it comes to matters like this. All they care about is $$$.

Anyway, the pest control guy finally got rid of the rodents by using massive amounts of poison over a period of several months. The only alternative was to cut a hole in my ceiling, something I refused to do because of the unsightly scar that would leave in the ceiling and because I didn't want dead rodent bodies and their droppings falling down into my townhouse unit.

I hate the use of poison, but this was really the only way. I'm really critical now of wood frame construction, and I hope my next home will be made of concrete and steel. This won't guarantee I'd be problem-free, but I think it would definitely be harder for rodents to gnaw and chew through steel beams. If you had listened to my recordings in the past, it really sounded like the rodents in my ceiling were doing some major damage up there.

Anyway, be very persistent and assertive, and if you can, deal with the property-manager approved pest control guy directly. Make as many recordings as you can for evidence. Perhaps video recording the noises would be better than just audio recordings, as it would give the listener some perspective. Whatever, you do, hang in there and be assured that there have been others who have gone through this nightmare before.

BTW, I don't hate rodents. I actually think they're cute. But I refuse to have them live directly over my head or in my walls.

Anyway, please let us know how you fare with your situation. I hope you get it solved so that you won't have a breakdown. My own nerves were frayed for several months after the last noises were heard--it took me that long to recover. So hang in there, I'm thinking of you.

Allan

Originally Posted by Mcmath512

Asmack, Mebbie, GetMiceOut -- did anyone ever solve this problem? I had this same issue for a few years and then it went away, for about 6 years. It left the same time my neighbors with dogs moved. Now it's back. I nearly had a breakdown today.

DID ANYONE EVER SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

I, too, am in a townhouse and the mice (we know they are mice from before and they are very loud) are not IN the house but in the ceiling and there is no crawl space.

WHAT HAPPENED? CAN ANYONE HELP ME BEFORE I LOSE IT AGAIN. THIS PROBLEM SENT ME OVER THE EDGE THE LAST TIME. PLEASE HELP -- ANYONE -- IF YOU CAN. THANKS!!!

[Newt]

Mcmath, some great advice from Allan. If you own the townhouse you will need to call an exterminator. If you rent, and the management won't respond, report it to the health department where you live.

Either way, be sure to have a complete inspection of your wires in the attic after the mice are gone. They can cause a fire from chewing on wires.

Newt

[Mcmath512]

Thanks for the advice. I've been through all this before and NOBODY had a problem but me. I'm not going to expend the energy this time. It was a nightmare and my townhouse association couldn't really help much because I was the only one with the problem. However, when my neighbors with lots of pets moved away, the problem dissolved. Now the neighbor 2 townhouses away has sold or moved and they have been in his unit renovating. I guess this has something to do with their return. We never could pinpoint where they came in. We had a hole in my bedroom ceiling, actually a trap door that we used to bait them, catch them and sprinkle trapping powder. Nothing helped because they were apparently eating dog food at my neighbors with has vitamin K, a coagulant, which cancels out the anti-coagulant properties of the bait. We found lots of green droppings. In spring they left and in October they returned. It's been about six years now since the last occurence. I've got those electrical repellers in almost every room, but they don't work. I just don't know what to do. I guess I'll just be quiet this time because talking about it never resolved anything. I'll just have to pray about this and endure the noise. I want to sell this unit soon, I've been here 14 years and the less said, probably the better. Besides, I lost my job months ago, so selling it my become a necessity. Thanks for all your input. If anyone can think of some solution please let me know.

[Newt]

Mcmath, if I'm reading this correctly, all the neighbors with pets are now gone and it appears the mice are coming in because of the cold weather. So, why not try the bait again?

Another thought that has come to mind is to go into the attic with a flashlight. Have the lights on in all the rooms below and carefully look to see where light might be shining through by turning off the flashlight while you are in each section of the attic. You will probably have to pull back insulation in each area and put it back again. Be sure to check where pipes and electrical lines penetrate the ceiling below and attic floor as they are probably using those as a pathway. I'm wondering if maybe you have a squirrel instead of a mouse this time, especially since you say they are so loud.

You mention finding scat. Here's what the scat of the two animals looks like so you can compare when you go 'critter hunting' in the attic. The squirrel scat is larger and a bit more plump and rounded. I found pictures where each is compared to a penny.

Squirrel
http://bp0.blogger.com/_g9Vncw88n0A/...h/P1200809.JPG

Mouse
http://www.bear-tracker.com/mousescat.html

Newt

[Mcmath512]

Not exactly. The neighbors with several pets moved and now there is one dog next door. No problem since she's been there. On the other side, the neighbor is relocating and only here sometimes. The day they returned, with their dog, is the day my problem came back. The other thing that may be of some relationship is that just last week the neighbor one away moved and they are renovating his unit.

The real problem is I have NO attic. We had to go thru my ceiling to get to the space. It's not very large, you can't even stand up in it, there is no crawl space. And I've been told that you can't crawl around in it because it won't support your weight.

We have been unable to find where they enter. That was the problem before and I think it's probably going to be the case now.

Since I dealt with this same issue for a few years I've done about everything there is to do. My neighbors all claimed not to have a problem, but that could not be possible.

Anyway, I'm just asking if there is anything new we didn't think of before. I talked with one of the exterminators I used before (I used trappers, several exterminators, the city building dept. staff) this morning because he was by far the best of them all. He couldn't add much to the discussion, except that the electronic devices don't work.

I'm writing here with some hope that there may be some solution that has developed since this same problem existed before. I think that I'm wrong, but I had to try something and since others reported similar or the same problem, I thought this forum would be a great place to start.

Please continue to post or add suggestions here, but so far, there doesn't seem to much that is new. The only thing I didn't do was rip out the ceiling and have someone look along the walls where I hear them. That was cost prohibitive then and even more so now since I lost my job a few months ago.

Thanks for your input and please continue to keep me posted!!!!

[Mcmath512]

Newt,
I forgot to thank you for the pics, but I haven't seen any droppings this time, since I have to put a hole in my ceiling to do so and I closed up the other and had the whole place painted since the last invasion.
I'm pretty sure they are mice, that's what I had before, regular house mice. We were able to trap a few babies through the ceiling opening and examine the droppings. The sound, although loud, is the same.

[Newt]

Mcmath, you are very welcome! The only other thought would be to go on the roof to see if there are any possible points of penetration from there, though I doubt the mice would travel that far for access.

I do know that bird seed from bird feeders will attract mice. You should also check around the foundation of your house, especially where there are pipes and wires penetrating the building. Follow any wires for your A/C and any meters.

I did forget to mention that the electronic devices don't work. I have friends with a cabin and they use these devices. When you first enter the cabin there are mouse droppings ON the device.

Newt

[Mcmath512]

Thanks Newt. Although I feel pretty helpless, and was reduced to tears yesterday knowing my nightmare has returned, it so nice to have someone try to help me. Since I was first plagued with the problem (I don't know how long ago and for how many years, ironically I just threw the papers out about it earlier this week), I've had my roof replaced. There is a leak in it, however, because when we had a record breaking rain, my bathroom had some leaking. I'm trying to get my roofer out now to look at the roof. My central air is on the roof, too, and that's been replaced. I don't think that's where they come from though. I know they stay pretty close to home and that's right above my bed. I'll look at the wires, but I think it's just pretty much hopeless. I've had a few trials and tribulations in my lifetime, but this, by far, has been the most unnerving. I'm leaving town for about 10 days this weekend or early next week, so I'll worry about it when I return. Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!!

[Newt]

Mcmath, I wish I could help more. Do have the roofer give a look anyway while he's up there. You might want to consider fogging the upstairs rooms when you leave. I realize that any dead bodies might smell bad, but that might get rid of them. I can't find a fogger made for mice, but if you set off a can in each room just as you leave, it might seep up to them and at least get rid of any babies.

Enjoy your time away from home.

Newt

[asmack]

Mcmath,

Have you talked to your neighbor about the problem? Or is it a case of no one believing you since you're the only one afflicted with the problem? This was my case as well.

I really wish the townhouse complexes would have a strict no pets policy. In addition to having food lying around out in the open which can attract tons of rodents, there is also the potential problem with noise pollution in the form of annoying barking dogs.

Again, the only advice I can offer is to get the exterminator on your side and collect as much evidence as possible. I made several audio recordings as I noted earlier, but I also went so far as to challenge people on the strata council to spend a night at my place so that they could hear for themselves the destructive noises the rodents in my ceiling were making. Fortunately for me, the problems went away before anyone could take up my challenge.

Nobody should have to live in the conditions you're currently experiencing. If you can effectively prove your case, the property manager will have to take action and order your neighbor to either give up their dog or at least try a different dog food which doesn't have as high a level of vitamin K.

[Newt]

Asmack, with no disrespect meant, I can't believe that someone would be expected to either give up a pet or change the pet's food just because a neighbor has a rodent problem. If the pet owner was leaving food outside, I could understand some of your feelings. As I understand it, McMath OWNS the townhouse and is not a renter. As an owner McMath would be responsible for the upkeep of that property inside the interior walls and probably the exterior and yard as well. It would depend on how the association rules are written.

I would no sooner change my dog's food then I would for my kids if my neighbor had a rodent problem, especially since I have a dog that is allergic to most pet foods.

As to barking dogs that are a nuisance, I feel as you do. If they are bothersome then they should be reported to the proper authorities. Just because I choose to have dogs doesn't mean my neighbors should be bothered by their barking. There used to be a neighbor on my street who would put her dog out at noon and it would bark for 45 minutes - no matter what. I never understood why she left it out there to just bark. Fortunately she was several houses away and the dog was a miniature something.

Newt

[asmack]

Hey, it was just a suggestion.

But what if the exterminator determines beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's the dog food that is neutralizing the poison? And what if the exterminator and the roofer have done all that they can and yet cannot find out the point of entrance for the rodents, leaving poison as the only option? At that point why not at least give the idea of switching the dog food a try?

If the dog is not allergic to other foods that are lower than in vit-K, why not at least try to talk to the neighbor about this? It's certainly less drastic than forcing Mcmath to move out of there after 14 years. Who knows, maybe the neighbor will actually understand and try to be helpful. Like Mcmath said, the problem came back as soon as the neighbor moved in with their dog.

The rules must be different where I live, because if ever the above was found to be true here, and Mcmath's findings could be proven in court, that neighbor would be forced to either give up the dog or change its food. Sorry, but that's the way it is up here and I know because I have actually consulted a lawyer about it in the past regarding my neighbor's barking dogs.

Despite the fact that I complained to my property manager about the dogs and sending him many, many recordings of the incessant barking over a period of 1.5 years, nothing was ever done, so my next option was to consider legal action. Fortunately I never had to take my neighbor to court because guess what? I actually decided to talk to her face-to-face about the problem and things are much better now (she bought some barking control collars and has been closing the window blinds while the dogs are alone at home).

Sometimes a lot of these problems with neighbors can be solved by simply talking them about it and attacking the problem at the source, not just going through intermediaries such as property managers, who I have determined to be near useless in situations like these.

Anyway, it sounds to me like Mcmath may not have the energy nor the finances to fight this in court in case the neighbor refuses to listen. In that case, I'd highly recommend moving out of there ASAP.

[asmack]

Originally Posted by Newt

As I understand it, McMath OWNS the townhouse and is not a renter. As an owner McMath would be responsible for the upkeep of that property inside the interior walls and probably the exterior and yard as well. It would depend on how the association rules are written.

That's another key difference up here where I live. Any upkeep of exterior walls and yards is up to the property management company, not the townhouse owner. Tenants are only responsible for upkeep of their interior, and since Mcmath's rodents are clearly coming in from the outside (ie., no trace of rodents inside Mcmath's unit), then this becomes the property management's responsibility--that is, if Mcmath lived where I live.

[Newt]

Asmack, I'm going to combine your comments from your last two posts so I can reply to them in one post. I'd like to clarify a few things and see if we can go back to trying to help Mcmath and not have a debate.

Originally Posted by asmack

Hey, it was just a suggestion.

But what if the exterminator determines beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's the dog food that is neutralizing the poison? And what if the exterminator and the roofer have done all that they can and yet cannot find out the point of entrance for the rodents, leaving poison as the only option? At that point why not at least give the idea of switching the dog food a try?

If rodents are feeding on dog food in my home then it means that I too have rodents and it becomes a whole other issue. Then I too would have to take action to get rid of the rodents. I still would not put my animal at risk if I didn't have rodents. Maybe the dog has a blood condition and needs the extra vitamin K.

If the dog is not allergic to other foods that are lower than in vit-K, why not at least try to talk to the neighbor about this? It's certainly less drastic than forcing Mcmath to move out of there after 14 years. Who knows, maybe the neighbor will actually understand and try to be helpful. Like Mcmath said, the problem came back as soon as the neighbor moved in with their dog.

It might be that the presence of the dog has made the rodents move to another area, though I seriously doubt that. I had 2 cats and 4 dogs and I still had a mouse run across the kitchen floor. I tried to trap the mouse for a couple of months. The cat would chase it and still it didn't leave.

I don't feel the dog is the issue, it's the fact that the rodents have found a penetration point.

The rules must be different where I live, because if ever the above was found to be true here, and Mcmath's findings could be proven in court, that neighbor would be forced to either give up the dog or change its food. Sorry, but that's the way it is up here and I know because I have actually consulted a lawyer about it in the past regarding my neighbor's barking dogs.

Barking dogs and folks with a rodent problem are two different issues. I agree that the noise from barking dogs is an issue that can be dealt with legally. I can't imagine how one would prove that owning a dog will result in your neighbor having a rodent problem unless dog food was left outdoors to attract them. I know that in some areas bird feeders aren't allowed because of rodent problems. So I could see legal action taken against a dog or cat owner leaving food outside where rodents could get to it.

Despite the fact that I complained to my property manager about the dogs and sending him many, many recordings of the incessant barking over a period of 1.5 years, nothing was ever done, so my next option was to consider legal action. Fortunately I never had to take my neighbor to court because guess what? I actually decided to talk to her face-to-face about the problem and things are much better now (she bought some barking control collars and has been closing the window blinds while the dogs are alone at home).

Now you are referring to a barking dog which is a different issue then rodents. I agree that what you suffered was unacceptable and I'm sorry to read that it took so long to be resolved. The dog owner was irresponsible and inconsiderate. Dogs bark for several reasons and one of those is boredom. It's sad that irresponsible pet owners exist and that humans and animals have to suffer as a result. I agree that face to face with a neighbor can often be helpful and should be the first option attempted.

Anyway, it sounds to me like Mcmath may not have the energy nor the finances to fight this in court in case the neighbor refuses to listen. In that case, I'd highly recommend moving out of there ASAP.

Mcmath owns the property and sometimes moving isn't always an option. Besides, why should Mcmath go to the expense of moving when it's the rodents that need to move? I would think it would be much less expensive to deal with the rodent problem then to sell a property and move. Physically moving can take alot of energy too.

That's another key difference up here where I live. Any upkeep of exterior walls and yards is up to the property management company, not the townhouse owner. Tenants are only responsible for upkeep of their interior, and since Mcmath's rodents are clearly coming in from the outside (ie., no trace of rodents inside Mcmath's unit), then this becomes the property management's responsibility--that is, if Mcmath lived where I live.

I'm a bit confused here because you mention above, where I've noted in bold, the townhouse owner and the tenant. An owner is not the same as a tenant when it comes to responsibility for the maintenance of the property and that is the key difference. How a property is maintained depends on how the property is structured. Generally when people own a townhouse, and it's not a condominium situation with common ownership of exterior spaces, the homeowner is responsible for exterior maintenance. For those with a common ownership of the exterior spaces, then the property management or the homeowners association should become involved and be responsible for whatever guidelines were established when the property was formed.

Originally Posted by Mcmath512

I, too, am in a townhouse and the mice (we know they are mice from before and they are very loud) are not IN the house but in the ceiling and there is no crawl space.

Again where I've highlighted in bold, I agree that the rodents arrived from outside, but the complaint is that they are in the ceiling. In the ceiling means to me they are inside the unit that Mcmath owns and does not rent.

Since this post is so long I will answer Mcmath in a separate post.

Newt

[Newt]

Mcmath, in responding to Asmack I came up with another idea. Let me know what you think.

Originally Posted by Mcmath512

The day they returned, with their dog, is the day my problem came back. The other thing that may be of some relationship is that just last week the neighbor one away moved and they are renovating his unit.

I think the return of the dog is just a coincidence, though the noise and commotion of renovations might be responsible. Either way, I can't see how you would prove that the mice came from there. If that is the case though, then I would think the rodents are getting in your ceiling from the common walls of the units and someone will need to do an exploratory. Maybe an exterminator with a camera system that is on a long feed, often called a probe camera. Plumbers often have these. Plumbers also have them for looking inside pipes and sewer lines. Then only a small hole would be needed in the ceiling at either end where your unit meets the common walls with the units on either side. They look like this.
http://www.roboprobe.com/catalog.aspx?categoryid=3

Of course they could be coming in through pipes in the common walls between the units and traveling up the walls to the top ceiling. Again an inspection with the camera might find the point of penetration.

Newt

[asmack]

Sorry for the confusion Newt. This is what I meant to originally say:

That's another key difference up here where I live. Any upkeep of exterior walls and yards is up to the property management company, not the townhouse owner. Townhouse owners here are only responsible for upkeep of their interior, and since Mcmath's rodents are clearly coming in from the outside (ie., no trace of rodents inside Mcmath's unit), then this becomes the property management's responsibility--that is, if Mcmath lived where I live.

When I reported my problem with mice in my ceiling (I am a townhouse owner), I didn't have to pay a single penny for any work done by the exterminator or the building inspectors. I just assumed Mcmath's situation is the same but I guess I could be wrong.

Anyway, I agree we should get back on topic and see if we can help Mcmath get to the root of the problem. That special camera seems like just the trick. Very high tech, and I hope Mcmath's exterminator can properly utilize this piece of gear to pinpoint the point of entry so that they can--once and for all--fix this vexing problem.

[JuaNGoTeM]

Hey, my name is obviously Juan and I live in the master bedroom of a 3 bedroom house with my pregnant girlfriend. Our roommate recently moved out of this exact room and before leaving warned us that they constantly, during nighttime, heard constant pitter-patter of feet indicating mice. I didn't think it would be that much of a problem, and I experienced no problems the first few nights we lived in this room, but I had a nightmare last night of running from rats and hearing the scratching and squeeking of mice or rats in my dream. When I woke up I was shooken up, and my girlfriend asked me, "You heard it too??" It then became clear to me that, because it's happened plenty of times, my dream was forming to what I was ACTUALLY hearing in reality. Then, in the early early hours of the morning, dawn, we heard constant very clear running around of something small enough to be a mouse. Normally I would be concerned but it wouldn't be a crazy matter, but, the problem is that the ceiling in our room is crappy. Instead of having a REAL SOLID CEILING, our manager decided it would be a bright idea to make the ceiling out of material similar to that in schools and offices. There are thin metal beams probably 1 centimeter thick and about and inch wide that go across the ceiling and they support very thin almost cardboard thin pieces of square cutout places over the beams. So you can better understand it, I can actually PUSH each square up and see whats going on up there. I KNOW there's something up there, so I don't have to look. I just can't sleep right at night because I'm scared that the weight of the animals up there will be too much for one panel and they may just fall through. This is very scary because I have trouble sleeping now because I'm scared that the one panel to break will be right over our face and we'll be waken up by a group of mice falling on our face. It's a very scary thought because whenever we hear this running around, it sounds like there is literally NOTHING between us. To make matters worse, I've looked closely at the ceiling panels, and they have man-made tiny HOLES cut into them. It disgusts me to think these rodents could be dropping up there and urinating and it could either be dripping in here or my girlfriend could be breathing that air in. I'm not exactly sure what I should do, as we don't have the money for an exterminator right now. I'm scared of placing certain traps and poisons up there as I don't want a bunch of dead mice decomposing over a thin ceiling with thousands of tiny holes cut in it. I thought the best course of action would be to place glue traps far away from our sleeping area then removing the panels once I hear them scream. Can someone please help, because it's literally driving me crazy. I hear it right over our heads all the time and it sounds like I can hear their tiny weight pressing down on the panels. My biggest fear is that more than 3 or so will be on one panel and it will be too much. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[asmack]

JuaNGoTeM,

I feel your pain. I do. I really, really do.

Are you renting? If so, the landlord should pay for the exterminator. Since you have a suspended ceiling, it should be really easy to provide evidence of rodent activity by simply pushing up on the panels. I know this probably grosses you out but at least you don't have to destroy part of the ceiling by drilling a hole through it (like what they wanted to do with mine).

In my case, it was really, really hard at first to convince people that I had rodents in my ceiling since there were no droppings or chewed-up holes. They kept saying it was pipes making those noises. I could not provide evidence of what was going on above me without drilling holes in my ceiling. Since I didn't want holes in my ceiling, I resorted to making tape recordings of the noises I heard, which was hit and miss because they would happen at random.

I finally did get some good recordings which I posted here for everyone to hear, and they all agreed it was not pipes. It took me weeks and weeks to finally convince my property manager and pest control guy that I had critters living above my ceiling. The pest guy planted tons of rodent poison around my unit, enough to "kill an army". This is what finally did it, and I also convinced the property manager to seal up a gap outside beneath the stairs which I suspected was the point of entry. It's been quiet ever since.

My advice is to call an exterminator right away and have them poke their head above the suspended ceiling. They should be able to easily see tons of evidence of some kind of critter activity. From there, they can plan a course of action that's best for your situation.

Man, I feel really bad for you because I know what it's like to be aware that there are unwanted vermin living and running around freely directly above your bed. It's downright creepy but you just have to have the courage to make that call to the exterminator and let the professionals handle it for you if you feel uncomfortable doing it yourself. Let us know how it goes.

[bluemikea]

I had a mouse (well, mice) in my walls for months before I was annoyed enough to do anything about them. I'd hear them pretty much every night. A couple of friends recommended using poison, but I researched it a little and found this article: ######### and it pretty much gave me the confirmation I needed that if you poison the mice, they're just going to die in your walls. I ended up using traps. They took a long time to actually catch two of them, but I almost called a company to handle it. Good thing I'm cheap.