Using way too much gas

[ronvinyard]

Hi All!
New to this forum, but can't believe how much helpful info is being exchanged for the DIY set. anyway here's my issue. We recently swaped a 20 year old coleman nat gas furnace for a newer (Less than 5 years) coleman evcon modelDGAT090BDF unit. Swap was very easy since they were identical in size and mounting positions. Won't go into a ton of details but everything went fine, the unit which hadn't been used before (according to the guy it was bought from) started right up and heat was flowing. We are in Southern Oregon and winters are fairly mild, this unit was running less than I expected and seemed to be cycling nicely, couldn't have been happier. until the first gas bill came. the old unit had some faulty electronics and our tech said it was cheaper to replace than repair and we decided to go to a pellet stove, so we quit using this old unit alltogether. then pellets went through the roof and we bought this replacement unit, our biggest bill with the old setup was $125. The first bill went from $28 (no gas heat) to $85, sounded about right, but was only a half month of use. The next month bill comes in at $285, so immediately reprogram t-stat and set temps into the high 60s. Next bill was $365. a call to the utility company says my readings are correct and I am not sure what to do, we purchased pellets and start to use the stove again and leave the heat on to run as a backup, hardly comes on at all now, bill comes today $445!!

Sorry for rambling, I need to call someone but when anyone hears that I installed myself, then they aren't interested. How do I approach this, I read some other posts and checked my meter and the 1/4 foot needle on the meter takes less than 5 seconds to make a whole turn, when the heat is on. when the heat is off nothing moves. one guy said I have to have a gas leak, and I said the only thing we changed was replaced the old flex line from the gas line to the furnace with a new one, no leaks there. there is a little nozzle thing that screws into the top left of the gas valve that I think might be the orifice and it has nat. and LP marked on it and the Nat side is screwed into gas valve with the arrow in the right direction.
there was no bag with a different set of orifices or any notation that it's set on LP. We went to a larger diameter flex line when replaced because of the whistling when it came on but that got better after replacement.
So do I need the gas company to see if the meters bad, this only started with the first usage. Does it just need adjusting? I thought it was new and unused and sure looked like it, I guess I assumed it would be set to a good average from the factory, maybe I'm way wrong?
Just very frustrated and don't know what to do next or what not to say, so that someone can come take a look. My wife is going through the roof so I need to find an answer or at least the right direction.
Thanks for any ideas in advance!!
Ron

[SeattlePioneer]

Find the rating plate for the furnace in the burner compartment and post the rated BTU input for the furnace.

Inspect the gas meter dial and check to see id it has a 2 foot dial. If so that measures two cubic feet of gas consumed for each full revoloution of the pointer.

Or there may be a 1' dial.

Make sure the main burners on other gas equipment you have wont turn on while doing the following test:

Turn the furnace thermostat up so that the furnace turns on and stay on. Measure the number of seconds it takes for the two foot dial to make one full revolution, or for the one foot dial if there is no 2' dial.

Post the number of seconds and which dial you used to measure it.

[Skip4661]

The thing on the gas valve is the gas pressure regulator. The orfice is on the end of the tube from the valve to the burner. If it is not set up with the proper orfice for the fuel being used, is probably your problem.

[ronvinyard]

OK first off, thanks for the quick replies!
the last answer got me to thinking, so can anyone help me on this. Yes the little brass double ended fitting that goes on the top left whne removed has a small tube that comes up into the opening of whichever side the fitting is inserted into. But when you mentioned the orifice in the burner tube, (I think) it made me wonder, when I take off the 2 screws that hold the gas valve to the round access plate on the front of the furnace there is a brass outlet pipe that inserts a short ways into the face of the burner assembly, it is threaded on the inside and is covered in black soot, should there be an orifice there? seems like ther should be something there because when you look inside I can see a long oening ans some metal mesh inside and the opening seems fairly large inside. could it be that there is no orifice and I'm just pumping unmetered gas into the burner? which was shut off last night and gas line turned off after reading the last bill.

Thanks for any light anyone can shed.
Ron

[ronvinyard]

OK I couldn't wait for a reply because I realized i had the old furnace setting outside and could check my idea. It does have a brass fitting with a smaller hole in it screwed into the end of the tube. I took it out screwed it into the new unit and fired it up, and now the 1/4 foot dial went from 4.5 secondds to almost 12 to make a full turn and ther is only a 1 foot dial and it took a little over 46 seconds for a full turn.

OK so the BTu ratings are 90,000 in and 72,000 out.
the orifice that it calls for says drill size #15 for N gas so i don't know if the old one is right or how I can check it. Does that corrolate to an actual drill bit at the unfluted end?

anyway I'm sure this is going to need cleaning since it had been running for at least 3 months with no regulation.
what would anyone suggest as my next move? do i just need the right orifice and someone to come and do some adjust ments, or has running it wide open messed up some parts with carbon buildup or something? what would someone think a target time would be for the gas usage dials?

Thanks everyone for such a great forum and all the help I have received in just a matter of hours! You all ROCK!

Ron

[SeattlePioneer]

Frankly, you need a competent repairman to inspect and set up the furnace for you. The episode you describe illustrate why people are discouraged from doing their own repair work.

You took on a task well beyond your competence and exposed yourself and your family to a substantial risk of harm. That risks continues until the furnace has been properly inspected and set up.

The BTU input at which you were running the furnace was around 180,000, about double what it should have been. That not only could easily have split the heat exchangers, but very likely created a lot of carbon monoxide that, combined with a split heat exchnger, could have killed the building occupants.

So frankly, I can't help you ---- plaintiff's lawyers being what they are. The estate of whoever might be killed could be expected to go looking for as many people as possible to blame, and I don't want to put a toe in those waters lest it be cut off.

So my recommendation is to have a competent person inspect and set up the furnace. If you can't find someone willing to take the risk (I wouldn't blame them), junk the furnace and get equipment installed by someone who can do it comepetently.

[ronvinyard]

Thanks for stopping just short of some really descriptive names!
I understand the risk we took. (Now) and thanks for your help, despite the fact that you may have opened yourself to a lawsuit from my dead family!

Just a clarification since you think I'm such and idiot, was this unit was used in a new mobile home and was virtually brand new. it is the same size and make as my previous model, installation was a simple as removing some foil tape undoing
4 sheet metal screws and a wall bracket, undo the 2 power lines and the few thermostat wires, turning and sliding up the chimney, undoing the gas line flex hose sliding out the old unit.
sliding in the new then reversing everything that I did. not actually in that order. took less than 1/2 hour.

The longer I type, the less angry I become, because you are very right, and I got lucky. I didn't appreciate the way you made me feel, but it was important for others to read this and learn from my mistakes before someone does get hurt.
Don't assume the info you were given was right, and the few hundred dollars I saved may have cost me a whole lot more than money, right? who would have guessed that a new furnace that had been in use wouldn't have had an orifice in it? but, that is why I should have checked. there are many constructive ways to say the same things, I just took offense to having my ignorance pointed out to me.

Thanks for the help and the good advice. and we'll get a qualified tech in here if they'll come or start from scratch.
and thanks for the harsh words, they taught me a valuable lesson that i'm glad I didn't learn the hard way.

[SeattlePioneer]

As a do-it-yourselfer myself, I find that perhaps the most critical skill and ceision you need to make is "can I do this work safely or is it something a really competent person needs to do?

I usually expect to do a job over again a time or even two until I get it right --- but if a task requires multiple skills with which I'm not familiar, or if I may not recognize problems and hazards associated with the equipment, it's the wrong job for me to do.

So I'm in exactly your shoes often enough --- deciding whether I can do a job safely and competently. It's all too easy to decide you can do work that you really don't understand well enough to do.

Look down a few threads and read the "Day and Night Furnace Rewire" thread and see what you think!

So--- nothing personal. But sometimes the best advice is not to do a job.

[Skip4661]

I would suspect the furnace has serious issues also. Like Seattle said, hire a professional to inspect it and set it up. Make sure you explain the situation to them so they do a thorough inspection.

[ronvinyard]

Well, I'm glad no one here is angry with each other, I acted hastily and instead of deleting I thought it better to continue so that others may lern the things that I learned.

I really thought this was going too be a no brainer, just didn't expect to have troubles with the furnace parts themselves. but like you said If I would have anticipated the possibilty
I would have known I didn't know enough to help myself and should refer to the pros.

Thanks again for the good advice and not holding it against me for my enthusiasm and misdirected anger.

I will be checking in regularly here and I'll let you all know what happens with the furnace install.

Ron

[Gunguy45]

No one here gets angry or pi$$ed unless someone asks for advice and then is just too obtuse or ignorant to consider it. You are not one of those, thats apparent.

Good job on the post, shows you want to do it right. Come back soon.

[thermofridge]

After reading this one I'm torn whether to keep trying to help here or to just spend more time with my boys. I often wonder if I am leading DIYers into more than they can handle or not. Many times we are more concerned with helping that we dont ask the questions we should in order to keep our friends safe. Everyone that visits this site needs to realize the dangers that are involved with doing it yourself. Im just thankful your family is OK.