how to turn panel into junction box.

[Tim T.]

The inspector told me I had to turn our old house panel (now acting as a sub panel), into a junction box because of the metal bar from the airconditioning didn't leave it 36 inches of cleareance look picture. So remove the air conditioner metal or make a new subpanel basically.

the inspector told me to take breakers out of panel, screw a lid on, and send the wires into another sub panel, the panel in the picture becomes a junction box.

Problem is I don't know best way to attach the 2 inch or so pipe to the old panel in the pictures. I cant use the knockouts provided because it is buried in the wall with stucco over them. or do I break the stucco and use them? or do I drill a hole in the front of the panel big enough to cover a 2inch opening and head straight out? there were only 10 breakers with 2 grounds in here it would be moving about 22 #12/10 wires.


big picture one right old house panel intended to be junction.
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...1130080916.jpg

stuccoed in
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...1130080920.jpg


http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...1130080937.jpg


Any help appreciated!



Any help appreciated.

[Zorfdt]

I'll let someone more knowledgeable respond to your direct question about how best to do this... but one quick comment:

When you refer to your inspector, do you mean a town/city electrical/building inspector? Or a home inspector when you're selling/buying the house?

The reason I ask is because the town/city inspector has the clout to force you to resolve this problem. A home inspector doesn't - and may also have his facts wrong.

My understanding is that the NEC required 30" of clearance width (not 36", but someone will correct me if I'm wrong). Also, in most cases, existing installations are "grandfathered" in if it was up to code when it was installed.

[Tim T.]

When you refer to your inspector, do you mean a town/city electrical/building inspector? Or a home inspector when you're selling/buying the house?

regular inspector from city not a home one

My understanding is that the NEC required 30" of clearance width (not 36", but someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

I was wondering is that 15" on each side or 30" on each side?

Also, in most cases, existing installations are "grandfathered" in if it was up to code when it was installed.

I was thinking the same thing. I think his argument is that 2 years ago we added the metal air conditioning vent thing 3 inches from the side of the panel. That violates the "30 clear technically. So the metal vent is causing the infraction. The vent is about 4inches wide and 3 inches high how much could it obstuct things. I assume if the remove or move the vent (I have no idea if we could do this) we would be legal.


Thanks reply good points..

[furd]

Your pictures are really too small for me to make out any details but I do have an answer for this latest question.

The 30 inch clearance rule is from any side. It appears that the panel in question is up against the siding on the right-hand side so that would mean measuring from that siding 30 inches left. It also appears that the A/C vent (or whatever it is) IS within this 30 inch clearance space. The 30 inch clear space has been in the National Electrical Code for many decades so that vent should never have been installed there to begin with. In other words it has ALWAYS been in violation of the NEC.

[ibpooks]

The clearance rule states that the panel must be located within a 30" space; it doesn't have to centered, it can be up to one edge of the 30". The clearance out from the panel must be 36". Basically, you need to be able to slide a refrigerator box up to the panel face without hitting any obstructions.

Based on the amount of work and expense required to relocate a panel, you might want to investigate reconfiguring the A/C duct instead.

[Tim T.]

The 30 inch clear space has been in the National Electrical Code for many decades so that vent should never have been installed there to begin with. In other words it has ALWAYS been in violation of the NEC.

Yes whenever that vent was installed it became in viloation.

you need to be able to slide a refrigerator box up to the panel face without hitting any obstructions.

Thats A good way to think about it!

Based on the amount of work and expense required to relocate a panel, you might want to investigate reconfiguring the A/C duct instead.

agreed! It may be worth looking into. Its probaly a long shot trying to get the air conditioning company to move it but they are the ones who placed it there in violation of code within the last few years.

Overall I am sort of split on the subject because I do sort of need a new subpanel for any future expansions but it is a pain and alot of work to do. (My main panel breaker box is completely full now).

Thanks for the help in understanding how the 30 inch rule works for placing the new subpanel I will probaly need that information

[PATTBAA]

This suggestion presumes the panel is "Flush-mounted" inside the wall----

A steel plate 6" in width , and the lenth, the width of the panel plus 1-1/2 "

You have to fasten the plate to the panel so that the the top (bottom?) of the plate is flush with the top of the panel , and each end of the plate overlaps each panel edge by 3/4".

You will need to punch K-O's in the plate for steel conduit nipples which are threaded into "LB" condulets ; possibly 4 1" LB's would suffice for the number of conductors being extended from the panel. The number and the size of the LB''s would depend on what is involved in routing the conductors in raceways to the new panel. Possibly PVC condiut could be used for the raceways.Include a Green Equiptment Grounding Conductor between the panels.

This is a "rough" idea which certainly has to be fine-tuned, but I hope the basic concept is one that will solve you problem with minimal trouble and expence