Kitchen Gas Appliances - Hot Surface Ignition Problem

When turning on my six-year old oven, the glowbar ignitor glows bright orange, and after a minute, the tube burner fires up.

However, the flame volume is pretty low, a faint gas smell begins to develop, and the oven never gets over, say, 150 deg. even after 10 minutes.

I don't have electrical testing equipment (yet). In the event it's either the ignitor or the gas valve that's the trouble, should I replace the ignitor first and see if it solves the problem? Or is that idea as dumb as I am?

Thanks!!

--Greg R.

Hello Greg R. Welcome to my Gas Appliances forum and our Do-It-Yourself Web Site.

Greg. Consider this. Your not dumb. Your smart enough to locate our web site, post your question in the correct forum topic and smart enough to ask for help. That's smart...:)

A hot glow coil, working correctly, will glow an intense bright yellowish in color. Too much orange, any reddish color or a dull orange color indicates the glow coil is weak.

When the burner is on and the flames are low, try tapping the burners gas valve with the back end of a screw driver.

If the internal valve inside the gas valve opens up fully, the burner flames will increase to there normal size. If the flames do increase in size, the coil is weak and or the gas valve is defective.

The most common cause for the problem your describing is a weak glow coil or glow bar. Replacing it ususally solves the problem.

Appliance parts dealers carry replacement parts for all appliances and are listed in the phone book under appliances.

For more detailed information etc. read the recent postings within this forum. The questions already asked describe like or similarly related problem descriptions as your question.

These prior postings and any or all the replies offered within them contain almost all the required information needed pertaining to the many potential and or possible problems with an ovens ignition system like your describing.

Regards & Good Luck
Tom_Bart....Company Enterprises.....TCB4U2B2B
Fast...Fair...Friendly & Highly Proficient...:D
Gas Appliances Forum Moderator
Energy Conservation Consultant & Gas Appliance Problem Diagnostics Technician.

Thanks Tom.

So if I read you right, you're advocating replacing the glow bar because out of the two possibilities: defective glow bar, or defective gas valve, the glow bar is usually the culprit.

Today I took disassembled the oven bottom to be able to fully disattach the burner from the gas orifice, so that I could check to be sure the burner and/or orifice weren't gunked up. They were both squeaky clean.

Now, if I want to do the valve-knocking test, I'll have to reassemble everything...do you think I should punt, and just replace the glowbar?

Our good friend at www.fixitnow.com recommends testing the glowbar's current draw using a clamp-on ampmeter, which I don't have, but perhaps it is worth getting one and checking it out.

The new glowbar is not TOO expensive...$40-55 depending upon the source (or $70 at the local appliance parts jobber!) so I am not adverse to starting there (especially given that the oven is 6 yrs old...maybe that's typical for a round Norton igniter on this type of stove....)

Thanks again.

Hello: Greg

Yes. Replace that glow bar. At 6 years old, it's wornout. The local appliance parts store can test the old one for you but most likely will not do to it's age.

Forget buying any testing equipment. Plan on replacing the hot surface ignitor first. Most likely it will resolve the problem. Most likely means just that.

Usually, appliance service repair persons replace both the ignitor and the gas valve as a set to ensure the appliance works thru the repair warranty period of the service they perform.

I personally do not recommend buying any non returnable part from any other source than at the dealers. Reason is, buying the part from a local dealer also buys you his/her knowledge based on the type of problem, the exact OEM part.

All parts are not created equally. Hot surface ignitors are no exceptions and are not all the same, simply because they look the same. One gets what one pays for. Case closed.

Yes. To do the test you must reinstall the entire assembly. I suggest you replace the ignitor, at this point and forget the punting. You already pasted the line of scrimmage....:D

Hi Tom

Well, I took the ball and zoomed around end, but almost got tripped on my way to the end zone.

I got the "G.E. Universal Replacement" glow coil, and had a couple of disappointments. One, it had bare-wire leads (and wire nuts), making it necessary for me to snip off the quick-disconnect fittings on the range's wiring.

Having done that, I then discovered (much to my chagrin) that the wires on the new unit were about 6" shorter than on the original...and would NOT reach one fitting. (On my particular range, one wire from the glow coil attaches directly to a lug on the lower side of the safety valve. In other words, a bare-wire lead and wire nut -- supplied with the official G.E. replacement part -- are worthless.)

So I realized I need to splice wire from the OLD glow coil to make the reach. This, after having already snipped off the quick connectors. I salvaged the insulated spade connector for the end of the wire connecting to the safety valve, and used a wire nut to make a splice to get it long enough.

Fortunately, the other wire reached okay to the wire which used to have the cylindrical quick-disconnect, so I had an ok time connecting with the wire nut. Boy, that cloth/heatproof shielding is tough to strip...two layers, really.

Anway, after much cursing and even a trip to the part supplier to learn that I would have to "make do" with an inferior replacement set-up, I finally finished the deed. (By this time, the savings on the DIY repair had been lost in valuable hours, but hey, I'm stubborn!!!) The oven now works great.

One last question though...the thermostat is still way off. Let's say you ask for a 300 deg. F. setting; the oven says it's done preheating and turns off the burner after a few minutes, when in reality it's only at about 170 deg. F. Then, after a moment, the burner cycles back on and finally the oven trudges toward the real mark.

On this GE XL44 model, if you pull the thermostat knob, you see no adjustment screw. I am looking at replacing the thermostat...and, is it worth the trouble?

Thanks again...

--Greg

Hello Greg

Your doing exceptionally well both fixing the appliance, learning about the appliance and making an excellent point I have been stressing to everyone for years.

Buy OEM parts and NOT Generic or Universal, one size fits all, replacement parts. The money saved buying generic no brand name parts usually costs more in time, labor and problems then buying OEM parts which fit correctly the first time.

I also suggest to everyone to buy the OEM specific part because I believe the part will last longer and function better during it's normal service lifespan then any non OEM part.

Thanks for making my point clear by posting your detailed explaination & experiences installing the GENERIC part.

In regards to the ovens temp control, be sure to set all selections and controls on the front panel to manual. Also be sure the temp sensing element inside the ovens baking compartment is not touching any other surface then the one or two support clips.

Based upon your description of the way the oven reaches the set temp, if the oven does not have a "Keep Warm" cycle selection, all control panel settings set to manual, the thermostat may be displaying early signs of failure.

If the oven does have a "Keep Warm" cycle, the pause in temp before reaching the final and actual selected temp, may be normal for that model.

Modern ovens do not act, function nor operate exactly like older ovens. This method of reaching the final temp in your current oven, may very well be designed into the normal functioning.

At this point in time, if the ovens temp is being reached and controlled, bakes properly, leave well enough alone.

Thanks Tom for your comments and encouragement.

I sure did not mean to end up as a "poster child" for generic parts. Having performed a variety of simple repairs around the garage and home over the years, I will be glad to vouch for the quality of OEM parts (particularly when the OEM part is not the exact same product as the generic, with a different part no. slapped on it, along with a 200% mark-up!) Nor do I quibble with the need for added parts margin to cover the costs of doing business within a legitimate parts distributorship.

Anyway, in my case, I thought I'd done the sourcing right. First I went to the GE site and made sure I was correctly identifying the part and its GE number from the schematic.

Then, I went to Sears (where I bought the range) and was sold a part in a GE box with the GE part number, and the parts specialist confirmed that this was the correct part using his own database and schematic.

I feel I have been the victim of sloppy parts specification/QA at GE, where obviously a number of suppliers are authorized to manufacture this particular configuration of Norton glow-coil. I am sure this same "replacement" part is on the truck of many a professional appliance repair person, who is none-to-surprised to find that the part has changed since original manufacture, and that some jury-rigging is required to get part installed. It may be that the glow coil has not been manufactured with the same connectors and lead lengths in many a year.

Or, perhaps it is, and somehow the exact part required does not make it into the channel (you'd think the original seller of the appliance and its OEM-branded inventory of replacement parts would be the "right" channel) and a frustrated repair person or DIY'er suffers anyway.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent, Tom!!!

Regarding the thermostat...great information! In fact my range has a Keep Warm setting, and it makes a lot of sense that the oven "pauses" on its way to full heat-up like you said.

In fact, we've used the oven a few times in the past day or so, and I've more carefully observed the control action. The oven does reach the final setting pretty quickly after the pause. Now, the thermostat is still "off" by 50 degrees (ie., I have to set at 450 to maintain 400) but that has been typical over the life of the oven and has never been real cause for concern.

Thanks again Tom for the great advice. You and the forum do a great service to the public!

--Greg

:D

Hello gregrichards77

Ovens that cannot maintain a set temp or are 50 degrees above or below the set temp are usually thermostats that are defective. Defective can mean orginally from new or from age.

To accurately determine an ovens temp, use a liquid filled thermometor set in the the middle of a rack centrally located in the baking compartment.

Allow the oven to heat to 350 and wait 15 minutes to determine the actual temp. Do not open the door during this time. Peer through the glass and use a flashlight, if need be, to focus on the thermometors temperature reading.

Once the temp is reached after 15 minutes, open the door slightly and allow the temp to drop 50-100 degrees, then close the door. Allow the temp to once again raise to the set temp.

Note the temp readings during all phrases of this test. If the temp is 50 or more degress off either high or low, the thermostat is considered to be defective and needs replacement.

Less than an actual 50 degrees either way, the thermostat only needs a recalibration. This task requires a digital readout temperature testing device and meter. Special skills, experience, test and adjustment methods, which can only be done by a skilled service tech.

Many natural gas utility companies offer in home service for this task. Some provide the service for a low cost fee, while others do it "FREE."

Inquire from your natural gas supplier. The phone number should be on every gas bill you've recieved.

Thanks, Tom, I'll do the test...and call the gas co. if we're really "off" by 50 or more deg.

--G.