Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - First row of hardwood

Ok Guys; I will be off and running tomorrow when they deliver the hardwood. I bought solid 3/4 red oak with a clear finish. Matching stair-noses and T-Moldings.

Questions:

1) Best way to install the first row. Pre-drill and which nails for that row.

2) Please suggest. Should I cut the wood at the door even if on the other side of the door the wood is to be laid in the same direction or just continue without cutting at the door?

Thanks again in advance.

FYI I bought Mohawk solid 3/4. Red Oak. Is it a good product?. I appreciate feedback even if it is bad. I paid 3.99/sq. ft. It was cheap and wife loved the color. Bought 1500 sq ft. Now I am scared to death of the idea of putting the 2 half inch subfloor becasue it will increase the height 1 3/4 inches. Should I seriously consider the nailing of the subfloor to the concrete to reduce a 1/4 inch?

Sorry for the ranting. I just had an attack of second guessing myself.
Piru

Piru

P:

1- You mentioned owning a compressor. I would suggest strongly in buying a a pneumatic nailgun that shoots 16 guage nails(1 1/2" length) for topnailing and sidenailing, or areas that a flooring nailer will not work. You'll have a bunch of those areas on the SF you've mentioned. I've used a Porter Cable that runs for $219 or so.

2- I wish I could be there to help. Man, you have bunches of q's but I'm pleased to assist. Personally I dislike the appearance of T-molds at door ways with solid hardwood flooring and it's not necessary.

Mohawk? I heard they got into hardwoods not long ago. When you mention cheap I nod my head back and forth. I guess you'll find out soon enough. Let us know. Good to see you back.

Just call me Firu.

Thanks Ken, I truly hope tht I will not need to bother you again until I have this project going. With the work I am taking the time for the project from my hours on the Net so I'll be off the board for a while. I will mean that everything is OK. If I am back tomorrow that will mean I run in some trouble. I will run the wood through the doors, no t-molding.

For the administrators, there should be a place to post pictures so the help and the end results could be seen. I would have loved to see some pictures of other's project to get ideas and stuff.

Nye guys for a while.

Ken, thanks for all the ideas and the prompt answers.

Piru

Don't be off and running with the installation until the hardwood flooring has set in the area where it is to be installed for a few days. It needs to acclimate to the temperature and humidity levels of your home. Hardwood flooring is kiln dried to very low moisture levels and needs to acclimate. Your HVAC needs to be running to assure the temperature and humidity are at occupancy levels. Spread the boxes around in the area and let them acclimate. Best regards.

Patricia:

Good point. We seem to forget about that important aspect. Folks should read the directions thoroughly.

Hey P. Are you still with us? There's a thread at the following link of a hardwood flooring contractor in Southern California that posted many pics of the progress of his job...from start to finish. It's exactly what you are looking at...concrete slab and everything. If I'm not mistaken it may be archived so you won't be able to respond.

You could always post some new questions as there are three of us hardwood guys that are more than happy to help.

http://webx.taunton.com/WebX?128@84.ezXPakCNcUl^9@.ef24c75

Thanks Ken and Patricia:

All the stuff is sitting in each room and we are waiting for 48 to 72 hrs for the wood to get "comfy" in each room. Living is becoming a little difficult with all the loose wood around the house but we are managing.

Ken, I went through the thread with the pictures, very interesting. Do I need to change my plans?

Upstairs I am thinking of just laying a sound barrier foam becasue I have 3/4 plywood subfloor with all squeaks fixed now. It took me two days only for that. Master bedroom will have a layer of 6 mill poly becasue of the bathroom moisture eventually coming in but basically is only the sound foam.

Downstairs I have the concrete slab and I am thinking of going from the bottom up, concrete slab - 6 mill poly - 3/4 exterior grade CDX plywood - 6 mill poly again and finally the 3/4 solid red oak. Not mastic not felt paper. Please advise.

Now the nailer is the manual Senco nailer. Kind of hard to get used to it but I spared a piece of plywood and ten strips to practice and I got the hung of it. Makes you sweat but I considered it some workout that I need anyway. I am looking and shaving like 15 lbs. by the end of the project and I save 500 bucks. Call me cheap.

Second. Finish nails. I bought 1 1/2 nails for the begining rows, however the 1 1/2 face/finish nails are only 4d. they look very thin to me campared to the nailes used by the nailer. Did I buy the right stuff? I dont worry because the finish nails could be used for the moldings anyway. But advise asap about this. I went also to an independent hardware store and asked for minimum 6d 1 1/2 face/finish nails and they look at me like a monster with two heads. They told me 1 1/2 are 4d (smile by the store owner and "installation guru"). In his defense I told him that I will nail the begining rows by hand. Do I have to buy a nailer for that too? I was planning to drill and hammer.

Anyway thanks again for all the help.

Regards,
Piru

P:

You're going to find it a WHOLE lot easier in using a pneumatic finish nailer for the top and side nailing. Trust me on this one. You can predrill and hammer but the time spent doing so will be enormous. You'll have many areas the flooring nailer will not "reach." Basically about two feet off of each paralell wall. It's up to you.

The discussion thread mentioned deals with the real way to do hardwood over concrete, but here in Florida we've basically relied on 6 mil visqueen lapped 6" up the walls, then one or two layers of #15 roofing paper(felt) on the slab, then attach the plywood.

Upstairs on plywood? It's never advisable to use visqueen. #15 roofing felt again is the choice prior to the hardwood. I've never used a foam for "sound deadening" in your case but jeff at http://www.floorboards.com has suggested it's use, more for comfort under feet than anything else.

See Ya;)

OK, I am off and running. I started on one of the bedrooms upstairs. It took a day and a half with the usual breaks and the learning "while we are at it". 150 sq ft in day and a half by myself and some help from my wife to choose the boards from the boxes. I think it look awesome. No many scaratches or dents. All joints are tight. Question: How long I have to wait to see if I did a good job meaning how long will it take the "screw ups" to show up like boards popping up etc?

Anyway, I moved immediately downstairs and when I removed the carpet it was two layers of vynil over concrete. We checked every square inch with a little hammer and walking and the vynil is tight so the plywood went on top of it after the 6 mill poly. I left 3/4 inch on the sides and 1/2 inch between the plywood boards. I think the flooring will go directly on top of the plywood. I found no signs of moisture. By the end of this area I will have a tough project, I describe. I have to reduce 1 1/2 inch of height of the subfloor and flooring to a vynil over concrete area. Do they sell reducers of this height? Wife is saying that "since we are at it" let's take that awful vynil out and put ceramic tiles which brings me to the second question, should I put a 3/4 plywood subfloor where the tile will be so the height diffrence is less?

Ken, I have couple of "I know everything" friends come over to visit and if it were not for your advice I would have follow some of their silly advices. Thank you.

FYI plywood was nailed down with a thing called Remington Powder actuated hammer. It worked very well. I used 1 1/2 inch concrete nails with load strength Number 4 (the highest). Home Depot only had the hammer type model but I found out they have a gun style one also that might be a little more convenient.

I'll be off the board again for couple of days. I'll update about downstairs later.

Piru

P:

What kind of tips are the friends offering? The area you've already installed should not pop or make any noise considering the prep you've done. If you've nailed every 8" on center you're in good shape. Are you worn out yet? hehe..

No, they do not make such reducers. As far as using plywood then ceramic tile to come to some kind of closer vertical height, I can't answer that one. Try the tile guy forum and see what they suggest.

I'm outta here..busy week. I'll look forward to your return:)

I don't know where you are, but I see Ken is also in Florida. Down here (just north of Orlando) we acclimate the solid hardwood for a minimum of 10 days under HVAC. This wood has been sitting in someone's warehouse. Now you're introducing it into another microclimate, your house. By all means, don't rush this step. You'll be filing until the cows come home otherwise.

I'm not sure if this was a typo on your part, but the correct layering for this installation is vapor barrier, CDX plywood, 15# felt and then the hardwood. The flooring shouldn't be in direct contact with the subfloor.

As for the ceramic, you can ramp it up over a couple of feet to reduce the transition, but this may be more trouble than it's worth.

Ken, 1.5" reducers are available. I though I hate them. You constantly stub your toes. Whether or not they come in the same prefinished is up for debate, but unfinished reducers are available from both CWF and Gulfstream here in Florida..

Leighsah

[Edited by Leighsah on 09-08-01 at 08:44]

Hi Leigh:

Naples area here. You're description is right on target with the common methods here in Florida for hardwood on slab applications. We don't do much with Gulfstream, but (CWF-Tpa)) is one truck I see often.

You've probably seen Van? He had a screwed up route when the old place burnt down in Tampa a few years back and worked some 18 hours per day. Good people, albeit a litle rednecky..which is cool.

"Ramping" is one solution to the hardwood height, but if you read through P's messages the exact match to the prefinished floor seems necessary. I've seen unfinished toe stubbers such as you describe, but for a DIY'er they're likely to never find one. Some creative work with a table saw would be needed here to make the transition easier.

Here is an update I am half way and I finally got my target of laying 250 sq ft of wood in eight hours, with some sore muscles at the begining but now I am used to it. Lost ten lb. already.

I bought a Porter Cable nailer for face and side nailing for 16 ga. nails and it's a heaven sent. Thanks Ken for the strong suggestion. I don't know what I was thinking on saving that money. I also have a table saw to cut the boards at the last parallel wall and the other cuts are done with a Miter Saw also used to cut the moldings.

Regarding tools. I needed to cut 3/4 inch off the doors to adjust height and tried to do it with a circular saw. Bad mistake, result I put a quarter round to cover the mess and I will buy a new door. The other doors were cut with the table saw and it was great. Staight and neat.

Anyway it is going good. I am getting a lot of praise and most importantly wife loves it. Sigh of relief.

Mohawk floors. I think the quality is good. Some inconsistencies on the color but I can live with it. Long boards are always bent and have to force them in. Probably normal. On the box says something like Crystal Shield Aluminum Oxide Finish. Tell me if it is good and if I can give an extra coating of urethane finish. All boards have a NOFMA engraving on the back. When it scratches ( I did a lot of that) is white. Very White if you know what I mean. I made some mistakes going arond the chimney and have to unistall like ten sq ft all those boards have been recycled and happily laying inside closets because of some facenailing I had to do, together with the ugly boards. So far I laid probably 850 sq ft and have a box with 25 pcs. of pieces from two to 5 inches long as waste. I think the waste is not bad.

Question #1: I have a 1 1/2 height difference between the new floor and the Vynil in the Kitchen and 1 1/4 at the bathroom door. I need ideas for how I make the smoothest possible transition. One of the kitchen transitions the boards are perpendicular and there are some diffrences on the lenght of the boards, of course I need to cover that.

Question #2: I left 3/4 inch at all edges and do not know how to cover the gap at the two sliding patio doors. One of the doors runs parallel to the boards and the other door is perpendicular to the boards. Also the edge of the rail on the sliding doors are 1/4 inch lower than the floor. Please help me on this.

I know it is a long post but I think it might help somebody in the future who might take the project with no previous experience like me.

Looking forward to your answers.

Piru
God Bless America

P:

I knew you'd be happy with the nailgun purchase. I told 'ya so;)

I wouldn't attempt any type of additional coating as it will void any finish warranty you may have. It will likely not adhere as well.

1- You could try some creative table saw work to make some sort of overlap reducer. Hard to explain in words but try these pics for examples.

http://www.hoskinghardwood.com/tarkett/trim.html

2- Does Mohawk offer anything called a baby threshold or the like? There's a pic at this link of what I am referring to. This should help.

http://www.ifloor.com/cats/Hardwood/Threshold-3657.html

See Ya Later.

Thanks Ken; I'll take those pictures to the store and see what they have.

I'll post another update when the project is done in aproximately 10 days.

Regards,

Piru
GBA