Gas and Oil Home Heating Furnaces - Furnace

Yesterday my problem was not described clearly enough. Again, if the furnce stops to burn, the motor keeps running for ever, and the furnace never starts to burn again. Unless I switch "off" and back "on" the main switch; then the furnace starts immediately to burn.

You are going out on some type of safety. Does your furnace have a circuit board control. If so, and you have a peep hole on the lower cover, check the led flashes. A chart on the inside of the lower cover will tell you what the flashes mean. Get back to us. Please use the same post as this one. There are more than one person to help you and we will need all your info on one post.

The furnace is an "Amana Air Command 80". None of the covers has a peep hole. However, if I remove them, I find a hidden cable board called "Diagnosis Indicator". It has only one red led flash. However, I assume this led does not indicate anything after the cover it removed, since the furnace's main electricity supply is interrupted by opening the cover. What other information can I provide?

What you'll have to do is: Take of the cover to view the led. Call for heat at t'stat. Sit down and hold the cover safety switch in. Let the system go through the motions and lock out. Count the blinks on the led. Then refer to the code chart. Have you changed your filters lately? If not, do.

A few days ago I have cleaned all filters of the electrostatic aircleaner at the air supply. Is there a second filter somewhere else?

The led just keeps blinking. Apparently, ther is no specific number of blinks. Is this likely to to have some specific meaning?

Did you clean the electronic filter screens? And yes the constant blinking means something. There should be a reference on the control or the inside door panel where the wiring diagram is.

What is the difference between the electronic filter and electronic filter screen? I have cleaned what I could pull out, and I think that is all. Further, I do not have the impression that the fresh air supply is obstructed. However, I hear sometimes a snag in the electronic filter. Does this mean anything? Is there a filter anywhere else which could make trouble?

Inside your electronic air filter, you have two cells(large) and one or two filter screens. What does led say?

The chart on the inside of the cover does not tell me anything about the led. The led sits on the ignition control board which has the following wiring connections: IGN, LI, GND, FP, TH, TR, MV, MV. The led sits next to MV. On the board there is the following instruction: "For flashing light refer to service instructions." Unfortunately, I have lived only for a few months in this house and did not get a manual... Is it possible to get it from somewhere, or is the Amana Air Control 80 a strange model?

You should find an ammana dealer in the yellow pages? Have a service tech who deals with ammana look at it. You are going out on some type of safety control, which is the module with the led.

In the meantime I had a technician in the house. He says that the layout of the system is flawed in that the fresh air supply pit is too small. He says this is why the furnace cannot pull in as much fresh air as it needs and hence he recommends to the install a second fresh air channel coming from another room. Just for now he has reduced the gas pressure a little bit in order to reduce the furnace's fresh air demand, but he says this is only a short-term solution. This is true, since I am still left with the very same problem; nothing has changed.

In fact, the fresh air openening in the wall does not seem very large. However, is this really correctly analyzed? How could the system work properly till a few days ago? I do not like a second whole if this proves the solution to the wrong problem. Some thoughts?

Just for now he has reduced the gas pressure a little bit in order to reduce the furnace's fresh air demand,

reducing the gas pressure to compensate for a lack of combustion air is stupid and ignorant.

Are you saying your unit is in a separate room that takes "FRESH" air from the outside for combustion?If so according to NFGC and the NFPA your unit is in what they consider a "CONFINED SPACE."If this space is less than 50 cubic feet per 1000 BTU input you will need two openings in this "CONFINED SPACE".One at floor level and one at ceiling level.Two openings are required to provide for combustion dilution and ventilation air.Use this guide line>>>>FOR EVERY 1000 BTU'S COMSUMED YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE SQUARE INCH OF FRESH SUPPLY AIR.IF YOUR FURNACE IS 100,000 BTU'S YOU WILL NEED THE TWO OPENINGS TO BE NOT LESS THAN 100 SQ.IN.>>THIS DATA IS FOR A CONFINED SPACE AND ALL AIR MUST BE FRESH AND BE DRAWN IN DIRECTLY FROM THE OUTSIDE.

IF YOU ARE USING YOUR HOME AS RETURN AND/OR COMBUSTION AIR USE THE 1/20TH RULE...DIVIDE 20 INTO THE NUMBER OF BTU'S YOUR FURNACE IS RATED FOR.THIS WILL GIVE YOU THE AMOUNT OF CUFT FOR PROPER AIR FLOW AND COMBUSTION....I.E. LENGTH 30FT,WIDTH 25 FT,CEILING HEIGHT 8FT.= 6000CUFT...1/20 OF 100,000 BTUS =5000 CUFT.....ERGO.....A 6000 CUFT AREA WOULD BE SUFFICENT...AS STATED EARILER MAKE "SURE" ALL FILTERS ARE REAL CLEAN,MAKE SURE YOUR FLUE IS CLEAN AND NOT RESTRICTED.GO OUTSIDE MAKE SURE YOUR FLUE PIPE IS NOT RESTRICTED OR BIRDS HAVE BUILT A NEST IN IT.I BELIEVE FROM WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT 'FRESH' AIR TO PIT AND "NOT" RETURN AIR TO PIT WE ARE TALKING OUTSIDE AIR FOR COMBUSTION.GIVE US A CALL BACK.MANUFACTURES DESIGN THEIR EQUIPMENT FOR A SPECIFIC FIRING RATE.IF YOU INSTALL A FURNACE TOO LARGE AND IT CYCLES TO SOON,THE HEAT EXCHANGER WILL NOT HEAT UP ENOUGH TO REMOVE CONDENSATE FROM COMBUSTION BYPRODUCTS...ERGO PREMATURE HX FAILURE.PDF P.S. Make sure gas pressure is set back to original setting!!!!!!

I am not familiar with all these technical expressions and hence my description has confused a few things. Therefore, I have grabbed out the brief report the guy wrote: "Found aux limit tripped, units main limit was set at 200 deg., max design temp 170 deg., unit has only 1 return and is not large enough for unit. Set limit back to 170 deg., temp rise was 80-87 deg, adj gas pressure down temporarily to keep delta T close to range. Still a little high 68-74 deg.
Recommendation: customer needs 2-3 6" Returns run to solve problem."

I do not understand all this. However, why, the heck, did the system run trouble-free up to recently and started to make problems when it was a lot warmer ouside than during the previous few weeks?? If the missing additional return is the problem, shouldn't the system have started to make trouble way before?

Your going out on a limit switch, for sure. First the tech is saying that your not getting enough return air. That is the air duct going into the furnace where your electronic air cleaner is. Are there any filters inside the unit? If the electronic air cleaner was installed after you took possesion of the house, the people who installed the air cleaner may have left the mechanical filter still inside the machine. Do you have one central return for the whole house? You definitly have an air flow problem. As for the gas fresh air.....it's possible.

If you had supplied this info in the beginning,our assist to you could have been more prompt.The individuals on this forum try to supply help with the information that is supplied.We do not get paid for input but are only here to help and most important to SAVE you money.Also to try and make sure someone is not trying to rip you off.Unfortunately sometimes it is like pulling teeth or your wife saying "Hey my mom and dad are coming up for three weeks and my dad can't stand football,so please don't watch the Superbowl this weekend."Yes I was wrong.I thought the Giants were going to take it>PDF

Dear PDF

I do not know what you mean with your far-fetched Super Bowl comparison. But I understand that you do not have a clue. I do not resist paying any technician in my house - given he is competent. However, I realized very quickly that the first guy in my house was a dud. Do you really think that some conceptual shortcoming of the system's layout is responsible if the furnace works perfectly throughout the coldest months and starts to make trouble when it is a much warmer?? Because this cannot hold true, I did not mention this wrong analysis at all for reasons of not leading you in a wrong direction. Stupidly anough, you believed this **** and, even worse, tried to make me looking stupid. Further, you ignored persistently main main question. The second technician in my house listened carefully to me and got it within a few minutes: a dirty flame sensor. He got it right because he - quite different from you - made use of existing information.

Best regards sent from a person sitting in a warm and convenient home.

staubr

I apologize.Must have been a bad hair day for me.I,in no way,intended to make you look stupid.I have had many helpers under my wings over the years.I found that patience and understanding with them make them a better TECH.If you go back to my post about "confined and unconfined spaces" I was attemping to supply info to you, that you could relay to your TECH.He could take some quick measurements and determine your air requirements.However I do refer to your thread on 1/20/01 at 10:17>>>>>Yesterday my problem was not described clearly enough." If you review a lot of the past threads on this forum you will notice every TECH has stated "Not enough info, need more info,don't understand your ?s," You will also see that when a heating question is asked we have to ask "Is it a heat pump,gas heat,electric heat.?The info I supplied for on "confined and unconfined spaces" did address the main issue.It came from "THE BIBLES." The NATIONAL FUEL GAS CODE BOOK and the NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION #54.Glad to hear your house is warm.PDF