Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - How do you know if you have asbestos floors?

I'm planning on ripping out my kitchen floor. When I look at what is down I see a layer of the old floor covered by 1/4 inch ply wood and then the new layer of floor. Does this at all indicate a asbestos floor? How do I tell if it does have asbestos (my house is 85 years old). Any help would be great. Thanks.

What kind of flooring is it? ie. tiles, sheeting, etc?? Do you have any idea how old it is? You were smart to suspect any old flooring--the only way to really know is to have it tested (opening a real cans of worms)! If it is not carpet or wood and it was installed prior to the mid 1970's I would leave it alone and floor over it if possible.

Don't ask, don't tell....

More than likely you will have asbestos in any linoleum or vinyl product up to the late 70's...and an old floor in a house as old as yours is a near sure thing.

Treat it like toxic waste...make sure the subfloor is sound, cover it back up, disturbing it as little as possible (no sanding or breaking the pieces up) and install your new floor.

What type of floor was over the plywood and what flooring do you want to install now...?

Unless you're prepared to pay to have the floor tested and, if asbestos, removed by a licensed contractor in that specialty, I would suggest not even having it tested...
If it's positive, they know where you live and what's there...

That's .02 worth from a fellow DIYer...

Good luck with your project...

Pat

camachinist, That is what I meant by the "can of worms"! You hit the nail on the head! "Don't ask don't tell"!

It's always interesting to see the different opinions that appear in these forums.

Federal law allows homeowners to remove asbestos-containing materials from their house without penalty, whether a lab knows about it or not. This debris can also be sent to a regular, sanitary landfill with your garbage, as long as it is bagged in garbage bags and tied up. The confusion on this subject occurs because if a CONTRACTOR comes across asbestos materials, they have to handle it as hazardous waste (asbestos is "hazardous" not "toxic" waste) and thereby charge you huge amounts to remove it, because it has to go into a special landfill.

If you do choose to remove the flooring (perfectly safe if your kitchen doesn't belong in the Taj Mahal), wet it thoroughly with water from a garden sprayer and wear a good particle mask. Asbestosis occurs from CONTINUOUS, not one-time exposure to friable (basically free-floating) asbestos fibers.

Being carful is the key.

Having worked in the petroleum and boiler service industries during the shift from asbestos to alternative products, I can see both sides of the story.

I've cut enough high temperature boiler and pump rod gaskets to qualify for the "long-term" exposure that another poster here talks about and hope that I won't be joining those with ill effects from such exposure. So far so good...

I re-iterate my cautions to the homeowner not based on the perceived dangers of asbestos containing products but based on the way authority figures like bullying the home-owning public.

Doing that kind of work around here for others requires special training and credentials and, as a property owner, is very expensive to have done. One can always put anything they want in the trash (I've been as guilty as anyone) but I wouldn't be telling my garbage man or landfill operator what is in those plain plastic, easy to rip open garbage bags. No, sir....

IMO, given the political climate these days and the way everyone is sticking their noses in everyone elses business, a homeowner who does these kinds of improvements should hold their counsel.....keep your mouth shut, do what you need to do and forget about it. There's always someone out there with an axe to grind looking to make your life miserable....

We folks who operate businesses have to play by their rules or the govenment will take away our living....unfortunate but true.

To recap...there is no need to remove a possible *hazardous* material unless it's absolutely called for, and in this case, I believe it is not. Contained, it will sit there as long as the structure is extent and will harm no one...

I hope the homeowner gets back to use with his plans...I'd like to see what he has in mind for a new floor!

Pat

I certainly meant no offense and did not intend to confuse the issue. You are correct, if the homeowner doesn't feel that removal of the floor is that important to him, he certainly shouldn't do it. I simply meant to offer another opinion and clarify a few issues that I may have had some expertise in.

I too am at the mercy of the EPA and OSHA. I am not with a government agency, I simply have a degree in environment health and thought I could add a few things.

To Dangerous...

No offense taken....that's what this forum is for; an expression of diversity of opinion and experience. Sometimes I wish my house was this peaceful...hehehe

We need more homeowners and DIY'ers here as well as professionals like yourself to make this a thriving, effective community.....

Sometimes much is learned from a little conflict, yes? *G*

Thanks again and I hope to hear more in the future.

Pat

Thanks to everyone for their useful information. I pulled up a small part of my floor to see what was under it and what it looks like is. . .

1) The original hardwood floor (in a kitchen?)
2) Some really ugly green lenolium tiles (this is what concerned me)
3) A 1/4 inch plywood subfloor
4) Normal harmless (however yellow) lenoleum.

The problem with puting the new floor over the exsisting floor is that I already have about a 1/2 inch step from any room to the kitchen and putting another layer of 1/4 inch ply and a layer of lenolium would be too much. So I'm pretty sure in order to complete the new floor installation CORRECTLY I need to remove the subfloor and start over.

I'm not really sure how old layer #2 is but I'm guessing pre 70's so I am going to assume the worst. Any more information would be helpful. Feel free to e-mail me directly if you have any more information (the demolition was scheduled to begin Saturday). Thanks again ncasper@uswest.net

Dangerous, I too have a degree in Environmental health and have worked for a remediation company for 3years and currently as a safety professional 5years. I agree with you about doing it yourself the right way. But I would not suggest this to anyone I do not know. I used to dump my used motor oil on the drive way for dust control--do I still do it? No--could I?--sure I could! What I'm saying is you can do anything you what as a homeowner--but you should be aware of the dangers. Most people just think asbestos is bad because that is what they heard. The truth is asbestos is best left where it is at--more harm is done by removing it--period! Most likely a home owner is not going to take the proper precautions/procedures to remove it. Wetting it and wearing a particle mask? Once airborne this stuff will be a hazard in your home forever and you will be continously exposed to it. Have you ever been part of an asbestos abatement crew? We take extreme measures to keep this stuff off our bodies and out of other areas of the building--we don't even take our cloths home! They stay at the job and are washed daily! OSHA has an entire standard on this stuff.