Electronic Alarms and Home Security Devices - DSC 832 Smoke Alarm Wiring/Programming Questions

Hello all,

I have an existing DSC 832 with the LCD5500 keypad in a 10 year old house I moved into this summer. The alarm is original to the house. I have the installer code and all the window, door, and motion detectors are working properly. There is one alarm wired smoke detector in the great room that is a Sentrol 429CT (manufacturing date in 1998). The LED in the smoke detector does not flash at all - so I'm assuming it is either broken or not connected properly. The smoke has 4 connections labeled - - + +, wired as Red, Blue, Black, Brown respectively.

The DSC panel is wired with 3 zone expander cards in it with 30 of the total 32 zones wired. I can read the labels for each zone on the keypad - and the 30 zones are all doors, windows and motions - the smoke detector is not one of the zones.

Most all of the wires in the DSC panel have white sheathing with a few red sheathed wires. The wire from the smoke alarm is red, but I don't know which one in the DSC panel it is. All of the zone wiring is with the white sheathed wires.

Of the red sheathed wires, one is connected to the main terminal strip with red to the connection marked RED, black to the connection marked BLACK, blue to the connection marked YELLOW, and brown to the connection marked GREEN.

I'm guessing this is the smoke detector, if not was is this?

Another of the red sheathed wires has only two of its four conductors connected with black connected to AUX- and red connected to PGM2. What is this for?

There are no resistors at either the smoke detector or in the DSC panel that I can find (I see you mention the need for these in other smoke detector threads, but I don't know where they would go or if they are needed with this configuration).

So my questions are:
Does this wiring sound correct?
Is the smoke detector led not flashing or showing any signs of activity because of the wiring or because it is 10 years old and broken?
How do I manage the smoke detector from the keypad - it isn't attached to a zone - but should it be?

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks in advance for your assistance.

Thanks,
Chris

You have what is called a 2 wire smoke detector. On your panel 2 wire smokes are only supported on PGM 2 with the - power going to pgm 2 and the + power going to aux -. First if you can at the panel what is the voltage across those terminals?

Yes, the 429ct is a 2-wire smoke. There should have been a 2.2k ohm resistor (red red red for the first 3 stripes) at the smoke detector going between the two terminals that the blue and brown wires were on (which shouldn't have been connected to anything. I suspect that whoever put it in couldn't figure out how to properly connect it and set it up on a DSC panel.

This is a 11 year old device that's not properly hooked up. If you want to use a system smoke, get a new 2 wire smoke, and we can help you interpret the DSC instrucitons on how to get it working.

PS: The other terminals with the Red Black Blue Brown is your keypad connection. Often installers use red "fire wire" for the keypad wiring just to make it easier to pick out of the bundle of wires.

You have what is called a 2 wire smoke detector. On your panel 2 wire smokes are only supported on PGM 2 with the - power going to pgm 2 and the + power going to aux -. First if you can at the panel what is the voltage across those terminals?

Hi,
Thanks for your response. The voltage between PGM2 and AUX- is measuring 0vdc. The voltage between AUX+ and AUX- is measuring 13.5vdc.

If the smoke detector has 4 terminals (and all are connected at the smoke detector end) why is it a 2 wire detector? Would a 4 wire detector be able to be assigned to a zone? If so, any recommendations on that front?

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Chris

Yes, the 429ct is a 2-wire smoke. There should have been a 2.2k ohm resistor (red red red for the first 3 stripes) at the smoke detector going between the two terminals that the blue and brown wires were on (which shouldn't have been connected to anything. I suspect that whoever put it in couldn't figure out how to properly connect it and set it up on a DSC panel.

This is a 11 year old device that's not properly hooked up. If you want to use a system smoke, get a new 2 wire smoke, and we can help you interpret the DSC instrucitons on how to get it working.

PS: The other terminals with the Red Black Blue Brown is your keypad connection. Often installers use red "fire wire" for the keypad wiring just to make it easier to pick out of the bundle of wires.

Ron,
Sorry, I responded to the first post before seeing yours...which answered some of my questions.

So, the wiring at the smoke is incorrect and missing a resistor...is this just an ordinary resistor I can buy at RadioShack?

I will definitely replace the detector due to its age - what do you recommend as a brand/model? Would a 4-wire detector be better?

Thanks so much - you guys really know this stuff and it is wonderful to be able to fix and manage the alarm without calling in a tech.

Thanks again,
Chris

I like the system sensor 2w-B model. The physical installation is just easier than most, and they are one of the industry standards.

Yeah, the 2.2k resistor value is dirt common (for various reasons it's one of the standard electronics values).

There's a bit of programming to make this thing work, so you need the installer code.

I like the system sensor 2w-B model. The physical installation is just easier than most, and they are one of the industry standards.

Yeah, the 2.2k resistor value is dirt common (for various reasons it's one of the standard electronics values).

There's a bit of programming to make this thing work, so you need the installer code.

Okay - I'm going to buy one of the 2w-b detectors and resistor and get that installed and then beg for more help with the programming. I have the installer code and have done a bunch of the basic setup before so I'm familiar enough to be able to execute clear instructions (which are often hard to find in the DSC manuals!).

Thanks again,
Chris

Whats the voltage at the smoke detector? Also are there any trouble lights on your keypad? If not what about if u disconnect pgm2 wire do you get a trouble then? We need to determine if there's a problem with the smoke (before you replace it) or a wiring/panel programminmg issue. Also at the smoke what wires are going to what terminals.

To answer your question, yes , if needed you can go to radio shack and get the 2.2k resistor.

Whats the voltage at the smoke detector? Also are there any trouble lights on your keypad? If not what about if u disconnect pgm2 wire do you get a trouble then? We need to determine if there's a problem with the smoke (before you replace it) or a wiring/panel programminmg issue. Also at the smoke what wires are going to what terminals.

To answer your question, yes , if needed you can go to radio shack and get the 2.2k resistor.

The smoke has 4 connections labeled - - + +, wired as Red, Blue, Black, Brown respectively. From Ron's post above, I'm missing the required resistor at the smoke which shouldn't have blue and brown wired.

There is no voltage at the smoke detector or at the panel across red and black (PGM2 and AUX-)...I'm assuming this is because it isn't programmed?

If you remove the wire from pgm 2 and the system doesnt beep and show yellow trouble light then it isnt programmed properly. Also if wiring is like you say then it isnt wired right. The smoke will probally work fine if we program and wire it correctly.

If you remove the wire from pgm 2 and the system doesnt beep and show yellow trouble light then it isnt programmed properly. Also if wiring is like you say then it isnt wired right. The smoke will probally work fine if we program and wire it correctly.

I'll remove pgm2 wire tomorrow...don't want to wake the family with the panel beeping or having the alarm accidentally go off. I also need to get a resistor. Thanks for your help. I'm fairly certain the programming isn't completed for this, so if you are around tomorrow, perhaps you can help advise me on how to set that up.

Thanks,
Chris

Sure thing. Usually on after 7pm est. Ron is usually too.

Hi Guys... So, I've made progress with the smoke detector. First off, I rewired at the DSC panel so that the smoke detector + terminal goes to the AUX+ (was previously connected to PGM2) and the smoke detector - terminal goes to PGM2 (was previously connected to AUX-).

I added a terminating 2.2K ohm resistor across the second +/- terminals of the smoke detector.

The CON1 jumper was already removed.

I then programmed the following (based on other similar threads I read): *8 Installer Code 009 19 04 # # The smoke detector is now working, but I have a few remaining questions:

1) Am I correct in the wiring changes I made: Detector + to AUX+, Detector - to PGM2?

2) The DSC Programming Worksheets show Section 009 as:
19 __ PGM1
10 __ PGM2
and the programming change I made was to set 19 to option 04 (Two-Wire Smoke Support) - but if 19 is associated with PGM1, shouldn't 10 be set to 04 as it is associated with PGM2?

3) I set off the detector using some smoldering paper - It went off properly and used a pre-recorded alarm announcement (Fire - leave the building immediately) - but I couldn't turn it off. I tried the reset button on the keypad and *72 - both of which produced a message "Output Control In Progress" - but the alarm continued to sound until I unplugged the panel AC and Battery. How do you reset/silence a 2 wire alarm?

4)I use NextAlarm for monitoring and have the Section 329 codes for PGM2 Alarm and PGM2 Restoral both set to 11. Is this correct and are there any other related reporting codes or programming I need to consider?

Thanks again,
Chris

1) The wiring you state is correct
2) When you go to section 009 the first to digits you enter are for pgm1 and the next to are for pgm2. What you probally did is programmed pgm 1 as type 19 and then pgm 2 as 04 which is fine.
3) All you have to do after it goes off is put in your user code, then go clear the area of smoke, and when all smoke is clear hit the reset key. Dont reset the detector until you are sure its clear of smoke because it will go right back off again.
4) that is the correct code if you are using CID format

1) The wiring you state is correct
2) When you go to section 009 the first to digits you enter are for pgm1 and the next to are for pgm2. What you probally did is programmed pgm 1 as type 19 and then pgm 2 as 04 which is fine.
3) All you have to do after it goes off is put in your user code, then go clear the area of smoke, and when all smoke is clear hit the reset key. Dont reset the detector until you are sure its clear of smoke because it will go right back off again.
4) that is the correct code if you are using CID format

Okay, now I understand the programming..the default is PGM1 = 19 and PGM2=10, and I've programmed PGM1 = 19 and PGM2 = 04...correct?

If I want to add additional smoke detectors at this point (I've ordered a new system sensor 2w-b to replace the original 11 year old (but now working 429CT), I can daisy chain from the existing location using the second +/- connections and terminate the last unit with the 2.2K ohm resistor...is that right?

I read in the DSC manual that the programming options in section 009 for options 03 (Sensor Reset), 04 (2-wire smoke), and 20 (*72) are mutually exclusive...is this why you have to enter the user code to disarm the alarm vs. reset or *72?

Also, how is the system programmed to use the specific voice announcement for Fire vs. Entry (I have a voice recordable siren driver card ELK-120 installed in my control panel)? I'm happy it knows which announcement to use...but don't know how that is programmed and am curious.

It was fun getting this installed correctly and working. I'm amazed that this system which seems professionally installed in all other respects had the smoke detector installed in a completely non-functional manner.

Thanks again for helping get me on-line with this.
Chrisk

You are correct about the pgm programming.
Yes u can daisey chain like you say and put the resistor at the last smoke. If easier you can use the brown and blue wires to return the smoke circuit to the panel then run the wires from your new smoke and tie them to those with the EOL resistor in the new smoke.
Entering your code stops the alarm from sounding. When the smoke trips it cannot reset itself. The only way to reset it is to disconnect its power. That is the procedure that happens when u hit reset on the keypad.
regarding the elk 120. Your alarm panel signals different for fire and burglar alarms. On fire the alarm output pulses on off. On burg it stays on steady. The elk 120 sees this and then knows what message to use.

You are correct about the pgm programming.
Yes u can daisey chain like you say and put the resistor at the last smoke. If easier you can use the brown and blue wires to return the smoke circuit to the panel then run the wires from your new smoke and tie them to those with the EOL resistor in the new smoke.
Entering your code stops the alarm from sounding. When the smoke trips it cannot reset itself. The only way to reset it is to disconnect its power. That is the procedure that happens when u hit reset on the keypad.
regarding the elk 120. Your alarm panel signals different for fire and burglar alarms. On fire the alarm output pulses on off. On burg it stays on steady. The elk 120 sees this and then knows what message to use.

Okay, it took me a moment to understand running the brown and blue back to the panel option...but I get it now. In my case, it will be easiest to just daisy chain from one to the next, using the original smoke as the connection back to the panel (ranch house with easy attic access, so just drilling a small hole in each of the bedroom ceilings to drop the wire).

What type of wire is needed for this by the way? I'll pick it up at Lowes or Home Depot.

Best regards,
Chris

Best to follow the manufacturers instructions for the smoke. Normally most i run into use '22 gauge 4 wire' for the wiring of house smokes.

I like the system sensor 2w-B model. The physical installation is just easier than most, and they are one of the industry standards.


Ron,
I received the 2w-B today and installed it to replace the old 429CT...Thanks for the recommendation. I really like the installation with the separate base and snap on detector housing. It also has a test button which was nice to quickly verify the installation. I've ordered 5 more to install throughout the house.

Thanks again for the help,
Chris