Water Softeners and Air Filtration Systems - quick questions
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moreira85
10-28-09, 11:43 AM
Can i plut a water softener in using a 50ft extension cord or do i have to install a new outlet within 10 feet?
Does it have to be a GFI outlet?
Can I run the drain hose 50 feet?
Does it have to be a GFI outlet?
Can I run the drain hose 50 feet?
AndyC
10-28-09, 01:23 PM
Your questions are very good and not at all uncommon.
First rule of thumb is to check local building codes and adhere.
1. Yes, put an outlet in (with a dedicated breaker if possible)
2. Any application where water is in the vicinity should be GFI
3. Yes, but more information is needed.
Due to line resistence, water flow will decrease causing a slow down and backpressure. This may lead to inadequate backwashing and you may get 'salty' water, as well as poor softener service.
Anything we put in over 30 feet or so, we increase diameter of the pipe (say 3/8" -- 1/2" -- 5/8"). Can you describe the 'journey' of the line? Is it a long the floor or overhead?
Even if it is a bit of a pain and expense, do it right the first time; it will benefit you more than just convenience.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
First rule of thumb is to check local building codes and adhere.
1. Yes, put an outlet in (with a dedicated breaker if possible)
2. Any application where water is in the vicinity should be GFI
3. Yes, but more information is needed.
Due to line resistence, water flow will decrease causing a slow down and backpressure. This may lead to inadequate backwashing and you may get 'salty' water, as well as poor softener service.
Anything we put in over 30 feet or so, we increase diameter of the pipe (say 3/8" -- 1/2" -- 5/8"). Can you describe the 'journey' of the line? Is it a long the floor or overhead?
Even if it is a bit of a pain and expense, do it right the first time; it will benefit you more than just convenience.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
moreira85
10-28-09, 04:25 PM
Your questions are very good and not at all uncommon.
First rule of thumb is to check local building codes and adhere.
1. Yes, put an outlet in (with a dedicated breaker if possible)
2. Any application where water is in the vicinity should be GFI
3. Yes, but more information is needed.
Due to line resistence, water flow will decrease causing a slow down and backpressure. This may lead to inadequate backwashing and you may get 'salty' water, as well as poor softener service.
Anything we put in over 30 feet or so, we increase diameter of the pipe (say 3/8" -- 1/2" -- 5/8"). Can you describe the 'journey' of the line? Is it a long the floor or overhead?
Even if it is a bit of a pain and expense, do it right the first time; it will benefit you more than just convenience.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
the journey will be completely flat along the floor, no overhead. should i increase to 1/2 inch?
well looks like i have to have another outlet installed. I have GFI in the basement but it is 45 feet away.
First rule of thumb is to check local building codes and adhere.
1. Yes, put an outlet in (with a dedicated breaker if possible)
2. Any application where water is in the vicinity should be GFI
3. Yes, but more information is needed.
Due to line resistence, water flow will decrease causing a slow down and backpressure. This may lead to inadequate backwashing and you may get 'salty' water, as well as poor softener service.
Anything we put in over 30 feet or so, we increase diameter of the pipe (say 3/8" -- 1/2" -- 5/8"). Can you describe the 'journey' of the line? Is it a long the floor or overhead?
Even if it is a bit of a pain and expense, do it right the first time; it will benefit you more than just convenience.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
the journey will be completely flat along the floor, no overhead. should i increase to 1/2 inch?
well looks like i have to have another outlet installed. I have GFI in the basement but it is 45 feet away.
moreira85
10-28-09, 07:42 PM
so should i use a 3/4 inch drain line or will 1/2 inch diameter be sufficient since it will be a long 45 foot run?
Also the vavle on the softener is 3/8 inch, can i buy an adapter to go from 3/8 to 3/4?
Also the vavle on the softener is 3/8 inch, can i buy an adapter to go from 3/8 to 3/4?
shane21
10-29-09, 12:46 AM
as long as the inside diameter of the discharge tubing is /12" then it will be fine for a horizontal 45' run. Keep your change of directions to smallest number possible and anytime you need to change the direction of the hose use longer sweeping turns. A rule of thumb I use is try to keep the turns equivalent to wrapping them around 6" diameter pipe.
Your softener probably doesn't ever run more than 5 GPM through that drain line and 1/2" ID drain tubing will only reduce the PSI by about 5 PSI over a 45' run of pipe IF installed as I mentioned above.
As for the power, while it may be best to have an outlet installed it isn't necessary for the unit to work correctly. I doubt your local building code would allow an extension cord for a permanent solution though. I certainly wouldn't run a dedicated GFI protected outlet from the breaker box to an outlet for only the water softener as it's power requirement is about the same as a single light bulb. You will be just fine branching off from the GFI you already have and installing a new outlet down where you need it. Again just make sure you adhere to all the local electrical codes when doing the work.
Your softener probably doesn't ever run more than 5 GPM through that drain line and 1/2" ID drain tubing will only reduce the PSI by about 5 PSI over a 45' run of pipe IF installed as I mentioned above.
As for the power, while it may be best to have an outlet installed it isn't necessary for the unit to work correctly. I doubt your local building code would allow an extension cord for a permanent solution though. I certainly wouldn't run a dedicated GFI protected outlet from the breaker box to an outlet for only the water softener as it's power requirement is about the same as a single light bulb. You will be just fine branching off from the GFI you already have and installing a new outlet down where you need it. Again just make sure you adhere to all the local electrical codes when doing the work.
AndyC
10-29-09, 06:32 AM
the journey will be completely flat along the floor, no overhead. should i increase to 1/2 inch?
well looks like i have to have another outlet installed. I have GFI in the basement but it is 45 feet away.
One more point I can think of may be whether the drain is a floor drain or a sump or somethng else. Local codes and good practice may require an air gap. How would the drain be connected?
I think you'll do fine, good luck with your water.
Andy Chrisrtensen, CWS-II
well looks like i have to have another outlet installed. I have GFI in the basement but it is 45 feet away.
One more point I can think of may be whether the drain is a floor drain or a sump or somethng else. Local codes and good practice may require an air gap. How would the drain be connected?
I think you'll do fine, good luck with your water.
Andy Chrisrtensen, CWS-II
moreira85
10-29-09, 06:45 AM
One more point I can think of may be whether the drain is a floor drain or a sump or somethng else. Local codes and good practice may require an air gap. How would the drain be connected?
I think you'll do fine, good luck with your water.
Andy Chrisrtensen, CWS-II
thanks for replies everyone. I may run an extension cord or install another outlet off the existing gfi as my brother does electrical work and can help me out there.
As far as the drain tube it will be about 45 foot run but with only 1 turn involved. The emptying of the tube will be into a sump pit but keep in mind there is now sump pump in it. I have a walk out basement so really not underground. In the sump pit at the top of the pit there is a 5 inch tubing that runs under the slab underground to a neutral location. I can A. put the drain valve in this and zip tie it so it sits on top of the 5 inch hosing. B. zip tie it to the top of the sump pit cover which will allow it to air hang into the pit. The pit is always completely dry because all i have going in there is drain to a dehumidifier which sits in the tube that runs under the slab, so this pit is always dry.
Also still not sure 1/2inch or 3/4 diametere discharge tubing?
I assume i have 2 drain tubes right? 1 for draining and another used as an overflow tube?
Thanks I am really excited to install it.
I think you'll do fine, good luck with your water.
Andy Chrisrtensen, CWS-II
thanks for replies everyone. I may run an extension cord or install another outlet off the existing gfi as my brother does electrical work and can help me out there.
As far as the drain tube it will be about 45 foot run but with only 1 turn involved. The emptying of the tube will be into a sump pit but keep in mind there is now sump pump in it. I have a walk out basement so really not underground. In the sump pit at the top of the pit there is a 5 inch tubing that runs under the slab underground to a neutral location. I can A. put the drain valve in this and zip tie it so it sits on top of the 5 inch hosing. B. zip tie it to the top of the sump pit cover which will allow it to air hang into the pit. The pit is always completely dry because all i have going in there is drain to a dehumidifier which sits in the tube that runs under the slab, so this pit is always dry.
Also still not sure 1/2inch or 3/4 diametere discharge tubing?
I assume i have 2 drain tubes right? 1 for draining and another used as an overflow tube?
Thanks I am really excited to install it.
shane21
10-29-09, 09:26 PM
In regards to the discharge tuning, 45 feet of tubing with one "sweep" 90 degree turn will be fine for 1/2" ID tubing. Make sure it is indeed 1/2" inside diameter though and not outside diameter. If you want to bump up to 3/4" it won't hurt anything either.
As for the overflow tubing connected to the salt tank you should use a 3/4" line or larger. If the salt tank overflows that water isn't under pressure like the discharge tubing so a larger diameter than what you use on the discharge will be needed. Most systems come equipped for a 1/2" ID tube even on the overflow drain but with a 45' long run I would bump it up to at least the 3/4" tubing if not larger.
As for the discharge tubing termination, an air gap is never a bad idea. Most local codes do require one so if it's feasible to install the tubing in such a manner it would be a good idea.
As for the overflow tubing connected to the salt tank you should use a 3/4" line or larger. If the salt tank overflows that water isn't under pressure like the discharge tubing so a larger diameter than what you use on the discharge will be needed. Most systems come equipped for a 1/2" ID tube even on the overflow drain but with a 45' long run I would bump it up to at least the 3/4" tubing if not larger.
As for the discharge tubing termination, an air gap is never a bad idea. Most local codes do require one so if it's feasible to install the tubing in such a manner it would be a good idea.