Boilers - Steam and Hot Water Systems - Baseboard pipes ice cold.

Well its that time again. And trying to be pro-active instead of re-active and gotten me in a worse situation. On to the good stuff.

Ok so my dilemma. Last winter I noticed part of my baseboard heat in the kitchen and bedroom was lukewarm while the living room was hot. So I figured I have air in the system. Well due to the fact it was late in the season and spring was coming I just figured I would put it off. Human nature I guess. lol Well now that it is starting to get colder here in jersey I figured let me tackle this now before I really need the heat. So yesterday I turned off power to the unit turned the thermostat to the lowest setting and opened the spigot valve on the bottom of the unit. So it burped and gurgled for about an hour until finally I had a nice flow of water for about 1 min. Shut the valve turned power back on and went to work. Came home last night figured I would test it. So I cranked the thermostat and waited. I heard the unit kick on an hour later baseboard still ice cold. I went to the unit felt the pipes. Return pipe warm pipe going out to the zones was 1/2 hot ( 2+ ft pipe) closer to the unit was hot closer I got to the tank not sure the technical term for it but that was cold. Opened the spigot blazing hot water came out no gurgling or burping. Pushed the pin on the tank steady stream of water comes out but cold Pushed the pin on the top valve no air came out. Trip the pressure valve on the unit nothing. No water no air noises no drips nothing. Any ideas would help. Thanks in advance.

Did you drain the boiler by mistake ?
What is the fill pressure with the unit off and cold ?

I would call a pro!, It sounds like you drained the expansion tank, and are not bleeding the system properly. It usually doesn't take an hour to purge a loop system. Also if you tripped the pressure relief valve and nothing come out you either have no pressure in your boiler or the valve is plugged and needs immediate attention.

hmm not sure if I drained the boiler by mistake. Could be a possibility I guess. The spigot is at the bottom of the unit/boiler but I did not turn off the water line going into the boiler. Is opening that valve not an option to get air out of the system ? As I drained the unit wouldnt new water replace it from the main ? Ill have to check the pressure when I get home. I have the unit turned off right now just to make sure I dont do more damage then I might already have.

Is the expansion tank the little 1 gallon looking tank on the sending side ? Pretty sure the valve isnt plugged. Was working fine yesterday but I guess its a possibility.

we don't usually purge air out by draining the boiler.
You have likely added air to the system, and a bunch of fresh water.

I can't tell you how to purge it as there are no pics of the near boiler pipework, or mention of the kind of rads

Well Ill take pics tonight and get the fill pressure on the unit while off and cold. As far as the piping you need to know the piping at the boiler ?

I can say I have a line coming from the main with two ball valves separated by a valve on some sorts (pressure valve or one way valve). The return line comes into line from the main from the top into a T then into the unit. I have the gas line of course. Then directly across from the main line/return line is a line going out to the loop with an expansion tank (im assuming thats what its called) before the loop. On that tank there is a purge valve (like the valve on your car tire) one at the top and one at the bottom. Bottom one has a steady stream of water when I push the pin. The top one does nothing when I push the pin. On the right side of the unit I have a pressure valve coming out of the top. Which when I open it does nothing. No gurgling bubbling hissing water nothing. Then on the right side at the bottom of the unit I have a spigot. When I open that scolding hot water comes out in a steady stream.

Well I took a look last night and did some more digging. I included pics. but I think I found the problem.

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1291/img7195u.jpg

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8813/img7212l.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/534/img7207.jpg

But I think the problem is this. See comments in picture. And I double checked to make sure that both valves were open.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6415/img7196l.jpg

Yeah, zero PSI not a good thing... no, you can't bleed the air out of a system by draining the boiler...

The red valve is your 'pressure reducing valve' and that takes the city water pressure down to the 12-15 PSI that the boiler requires.

See that big nut on the bottom? There's a strainer screen inside there. If you close both blue valves, remove that nut, take out that screen and clean it... before you put it back together, put a bucket under it and open the valve to the city water to flush the crud out... put the screen back in, you MIGHT be able to get that working again...

Ill try that tonight. Thanks trooper. for arguement sake say I clean it all out put it back together and get water out of the pee valve on the boiler side will it fill the boiler or will there be something else I would need to do ? I checked all the radiators last night and none of them have a pressure/release valve on them. I only saw a valve to turn on/off the radiator.

One thing to remember is to NOT turn on the burners until there is water in the boiler. Doing so, if it hasn't already, will ruin the boiler. You will find out when you start to fill it. If water runs across the floor the boiler is cracked.

Also, the expansion tank needs to be replaced. With water coming out of the bottom of it when you pressed the pin the bladder is shot. These are easy to replace, basically:

Buy one of the same size, double check the fitting size where it screws into the air scoop.

Unscrew the current one,. Note: it will be heavy (!) as it has water in it.

Apply thread sealant to the new tank fitting.

Screw new tank into position.

Another note: Do not depress the valve pin on the new tank. They are pre-charged to 12 psi. Doing so will relieve the pressure which you will then need to add back in (bicycle pump works).

Once the new tank is installed along with cleaning the feed valve screen you can now try re-filling the system.

The gauge that shows 0 - 50 in black, and 0 - 115 in red should to go 12 in the black scale with 30 in the red scale. This is near where the pointer to the left of "Altitude" is.

Al.

Alrighty then I changed the expansion tank cleaned the pressure valve same result. No watering making it past the valve. So tonight Im going to take it out and hit the plumbing store tomorrow. :wall:

Dang Stang, I was hopin' that would do it for ya...

Was there a lot of 'crud' in the strainer?

You might want to consider while you've got it apart... adding a 'backflow preventer' ... keeps the boiler water out of the domestic.

yeah. This is my grandparents house which my father owns now. No one is living it its kinda my fathers "get away" from my mother. lol My grandparents have been gone for 11 yrs now so no one has done an maintenance on it in at least 11 yrs probably 15. I flushed it for like 15 mins and nothing but cloudy water and metal particles were coming out. So I figured why put a band aid on it. They are cheap enough Ill just put a new one on and be done with it.

Also I had to cut the bugger out cause I couldnt get the solider to melt. I was using a blue tank propane torch. Maybe go with a yellow bottle ? Solider is old school probably lead based.

On a side note Im in the new brunswick area on the FD I have some friends who are troopers. Any where close to me ?