Water Softeners and Air Filtration Systems - installed tankless heater, hard water, what do i do?

Hi there,

Just installed a tankless water heater, a propane model made by paloma.
I live in an area with very hard water 39 grains pergallon (6.7ppm)
Will a water softener reduce the number to a safe amount for to heater for avoid scaling?
I dont really care about the advantages of the softener other than this, atleast for now.
Can I just run the unit as is and perform a descaling flush? Will this keep my unit in working order, or is this a sloppy fix for the problem?

Thanks!

James

Hi there,

Just installed a tankless water heater, a propane model made by paloma.
I live in an area with very hard water 39 grains pergallon (6.7ppm)
Will a water softener reduce the number to a safe amount for to heater for avoid scaling?
I dont really care about the advantages of the softener other than this, atleast for now.
Can I just run the unit as is and perform a descaling flush?

Well if the ONLY thing you are interested in a softener for is to prevent scaling, I'm not sure it's your best solution.

Because of their high velocity, tankless water heaters don't build up scale. By design the high velocity water flow 'blows' it out down the pipes along with the heated water. The minerals that precipitate out from the heating will end up getting caught in the little screens in your faucets.

In my opinion the best solution would be to install a whole house filter on the water line comming from the water heater. They are MUCH less expensive then a softener, are only ~12" tall and ~8" in diameter. Instead of buying salt month after month, you'd replace the filter only when needed.

Also this way you have a single filter to check and replace instead of many different faucet and appliance screens. Also the whole house filter will catch much smaller precipitates then the screens in your faucet.

Just my 2 cents

Chris

Well if the ONLY thing you are interested in a softener for is to prevent scaling, I'm not sure it's your best solution.

Because of their high velocity, tankless water heaters don't build up scale. By design the high velocity water flow 'blows' it out down the pipes along with the heated water. The minerals that precipitate out from the heating will end up getting caught in the little screens in your faucets.

In my opinion the best solution would be to install a whole house filter on the water line comming from the water heater. They are MUCH less expensive then a softener, are only ~12" tall and ~8" in diameter. Instead of buying salt month after month, you'd replace the filter only when needed.

Also this way you have a single filter to check and replace instead of many different faucet and appliance screens. Also the whole house filter will catch much smaller precipitates then the screens in your faucet.

Just my 2 cents

Chris

Well this is good news, and I hope that you are correct. I have read several reports of these units failing or having low flow due to mineral build up in the heat tubes (excuse my lack of terminology) that in some cases caused the owner to replace the unit, which fixed the low flow or lack of hot water....

No expert...but...

There is no real HIGH VELOCITY in a tankless heater. No more than the velocity coming out of your faucet or water dispenser.. Do they show signs of scaling?

Even the boilers on Navy ships using very pure water and exact chemical makeup needed descaling occasionally...not that I was a boiler tech..but I know it was done.

I seriously doubt a filter will remove the minerals disolved in the water..the particles are simply too fine. If it could I imagine it will severely reduce your flow and the filters may clog rapidly. Filters can run$20-30 ea or more and might need replacing monthly.

A good softener system, properly sized and installed, is very low maintenance and pretty inexpensive.

Hopefully one of our water quality experts will weigh in soon....

A filter isn't going to stop scaling issues. You are dealing with 2 different animals here. The "scaling" is usually caused by hardness (usually calcium lime or magnesium) and it will not be filtered by a standard cartridge type filter. If you are looking to remove sediment and small amounts a of iron a cartridge filter may be the cheapest solution but again, it won't deal with hardness.

There are some companies that sell cartridge filters to "remove" hardness but they are expensive, dependent upon lower flow rates and don't do a great job on real hard water which I would classify as 39 GPG.

If all you' re doing is removing hardness then a small softener could be installed pretty cheaply to handle the issue, hell you could even install it only on the line feeding IN to the hot water heater and then it would only treat the hot water which would keep your cold water the way you're used to it and cut down on salt usage as well.

Many plumbers install fittings on tankless water heaters specifically so they can be flushed with a de-scaling agent every year or so to keep them free of mineral build up. If you feel comfortable flushing it AT LEAST every year (maybe 3 times a year would be better for your 39 hardness water) then I'm sure that would be fine. Does the manufacturer recommend de-scaling the unit?

Thank you for the replies,
Thanks for clearing that up shane, I jsut read the manula and they do recommend a periodic flush, I will flush it 4 times a year just to be safe, and probably install on the hot water line just to be safe. I have a solar preheating system so I doubt that hot water will be good for the softener, so I will install it on the hot line before it enters the solar collectors.

Thanks again all. I will keep up with the progress and post them. It dropped below 40 last night and the 5 gallon propane tank seems to have froze and I get a no gas code on the tankless heater... Going to buy a larger tank and that should take care of it.

Whoa...James...time for a new post over in the gas applianaces or water heater section.

Whats the BTU and gas requirements for that heater...a 5 gal tank sure won't run it very long I don't think.....?

Especially in colder weather...

yah lol had to learn the hard way.i talked to the propane shop and got some info, the heater is 24000-13000 BTU hour, but Since the water is preheated from the solar system, I was hoping to just need a touch of heat... NOT true when its cloudy : ) So i am going to get atleast a 25 gallon and that should take care of it

Wow...not a very big heater I guess.....thought they were more like 100K btu .

Wow...not a very big heater I guess.....thought they were more like 100K btu .

oops, 24000-130000 but still is a smaller unit, Its technically a 1 shower unit I have a 700 sqft studio (renovated quanset hut to be specific : )