Kitchen Large Electric Appliances - only works with lightbulb pulled

i have a whirlpool gold side by side fridge 5 years old that only works when the lightbulb is pulled out .the lightbulb still works when screwed in but the fridge does not. It also has a humming noise when bulb is in.The bulb has been out for over a month and fridge is still working.any help would be appreciated.Thanks in advance,

What is the model number of your fridge?

You should have an electrician look at this right away. Your symptoms could point to something involving and open neutral circuit inside the appliance somewhere. It is a baffling problem to find, but it will be obvious once careful measurements are made.

What is the model number of your fridge?

the model # is gd2shaxnb is was bought in may 2004.

You should have an electrician look at this right away. Your symptoms could point to something involving and open neutral circuit inside the appliance somewhere. It is a baffling problem to find, but it will be obvious once careful measurements are made.

thanks for your reply, i was hopping this would be a easy fix but after a couple of days of no replies i was considering a repair man. I Will make some calls tomorrow and keep updating.

You will need a new control board for that refrigerator. I have changed these boards because of failed refrigerator side lights/display and no cooling. The humming/buzzing noise you are hearing when the light bulb is screwed in is the relay on the board buzzing. You can take the board out of the housing and look on the back side of it where the soldered connections are. Look for burnt spots or bad solder connections. The board is located in a white box at the back side of the refrigerator, far left side under the cardboard cover.

gdoug,

How much - about - are these boards. And have you ever testd the fridge, per 594tough's post, to see if when the bulb is in or out, if the fridge will make 110 from it's cabinet to a ground, say on a nearby stove or sink?

Somebody in this world is sure making a fortune by selling replacement boards for appliances and furnaces, I bet. Very disgusting. And the odd problems that develop when they go out.

I have an older Mark V Whirlpool that I have never had any issues with.

I have seen separate issues with these control boards with the fresh food side lighting and no cooling. No cooling is not nearly as common though. I haven't seen these linked before. However the control board does control the fresh food side lighting and all other functions of the refrigerator including defrost. With this series of Whirlpool refrigerators, the control board failing is somewhat common. I see probably on average one a month. I look at every board that I replace and I always see burnt solder connections and/or tracers on the board.

I have never tested a unit as you are asking about per 594tough. I haven't had a reason to. What joe12 is describing sounds like a board problem to me. There is the possibility I am wrong however. I am not there servicing that unit.

gdoug, Thanks for your reply.

Have you ever had one tho that works with the bulb out?, but not in? Or were your problems merely an issue that the bulb did not work...nor cool?

Or didn't you remove the bulb, therefore did not experience this, thinking the homeowner would change it?

Most of the calls I see are when the fresh food side lights and control display out. I have only been on a few no cool calls related to a board problem. Usually the call comes in as the customer has tried to change the bulb but the light still doesn't work. I also have seen the relay buzzing on the control board when opening the fresh food door and the light flickers with the buzzing relay.

I haven't seen joe12's exact problem before where the refrigerator only cools with the bulb out. The only way those two circuits are related is through the control board.

You will need a new control board for that refrigerator. I have changed these boards because of failed refrigerator side lights/display and no cooling. The humming/buzzing noise you are hearing when the light bulb is screwed in is the relay on the board buzzing. You can take the board out of the housing and look on the back side of it where the soldered connections are. Look for burnt spots or bad solder connections. The board is located in a white box at the back side of the refrigerator, far left side under the cardboard cover.

Thank you i will try that. I have a repair man comming out on monday,over the phone they told me it was a short in the wiring and because of the way they are built it was possilble they could not fix it.(the short) because it could be in the spray foam and is not accessable, i will check the board and post back. for 2300.00 dollars i hope it can be fixed (thats what we paid new ) we have already started looking for a new one.:madhell:

Keep this one in mind: The excuse that it is buried/can't find it, may be a cop out, given to layman who do not know much.

Years ago, after I ran into a mysterious outage or short, I asked an appliancee tech if mfg.'ers bury wires in the cabinet, inaccessible. He said no. Wire connection points should only be at back of fridge at the entry, underneath at compressor area, at door switch, at behind/under removeable panels where controls or coils are located. But not connections say that can get say condensation in them and maybe short, while being hidden in the foam in the cabinet, inaccessible.

I have a feeling that some companies might prefer to steer away from trying to find such a problem. As either they might feel they have to shotgun repair?, or, dismantle all kinds of stuff and go, on a seek and destroy mission, in trying to find the problem, while racking up a possible sizeable bill, on a piece of residential equip., that might not cost enough to warrant this.

What does a board cost for this? You can always weigh out cost of a gamble to buy this, as opposed to service man coming out.

I considered a what if - what if the door switch spade/wire was hitting the cabinet and shorting, and using up enough available amps from the outlet to not blow a fuse? But enough to reduce the available amperage for the compressor? But this seems unlikely, as I would thingk that what would happen is when the compressor tried to come on (or defrost element), then the circuit breaker would blow, or, the bulb wire would have simply burned in half first, before then.

Keep this one in mind: The excuse that it is buried/can't find it, may be a cop out, given to layman who do not know much.

Years ago, after I ran into a mysterious outage or short, I asked an appliancee tech if mfg.'ers bury wires in the cabinet, inaccessible. He said no. Wire connection points should only be at back of fridge at the entry, underneath at compressor area, at door switch, at behind/under removeable panels where controls or coils are located. But not connections say that can get say condensation in them and maybe short, while being hidden in the foam in the cabinet, inaccessible.

I have a feeling that some companies might prefer to steer away from trying to find such a problem. As either they might feel they have to shotgun repair?, or, dismantle all kinds of stuff and go, on a seek and destroy mission, in trying to find the problem, while racking up a possible sizeable bill, on a piece of residential equip., that might not cost enough to warrant this.

What does a board cost for this? You can always weigh out cost of a gamble to buy this, as opposed to service man coming out.

I considered a what if - what if the door switch spade/wire was hitting the cabinet and shorting, and using up enough available amps from the outlet to not blow a fuse? But enough to reduce the available amperage for the compressor? But this seems unlikely, as I would thingk that what would happen is when the compressor tried to come on (or defrost element), then the circuit breaker would blow, or, the bulb wire would have simply burned in half first, before then.

i pulled out the door switch and tried it with it out and same problem as soon as i put a bulb in it shuts off. they was no sign of a short.i pulled out the control board in the back and no signs of a short.i tried to drop the temp panel in the inside of the fridge where the bulb is and could see anouther circut board wich looked fine. T:confused:here is a rod with a clip on it stoping me from pulling it right out,will try again sat,(its been a long day) will post again when i can get it right out. that has to be where the problem is? ALSO does not look like you could not get to all the wirring.

i pulled out the door switch and tried it with it out and same problem as soon as i put a bulb in it shuts off. they was no sign of a short.i pulled out the control board in the back and no signs of a short.i tried to drop the temp panel in the inside of the fridge where the bulb is and could see anouther circut board wich looked fine. T:confused:here is a rod with a clip on it stoping me from pulling it right out,will try again sat,(its been a long day) will post again when i can get it right out. that has to be where the problem is? ALSO does not look like you could not get to all the wirring.

The "rod" you mention goes to the manual damper that regulates airflow to the fresh food section. Be careful because that can easily be cracked or broken.

I still maintain that the control board in the back is the culprit. But it might be better in this case to put it all back together and call for service on this one. I have seen many situations where the customer tried to fix it themselves and ended up spending more money than if they would have called a tech to their house to start with. The control board runs about $75-80 depending on where you look. But, that is around the cost of a service call.

Joe, too bad when you had the door switch out, that for the fun of it, if you removed one of the wires from it, (if then you left the bulb in), if the fridge works. Thren you would know it is in the bulb wiring for sure, and not something weird with the force of the bulb in the socket maybe pressing on something in the control panel?

I will be laying in bed thinking about this one tonight.

But gdoug does have a point comparing cost of a new board to a tech call. If by chance you put the board in and it didn't work, then you'd have to trace down wires/connections like a tech would. It would not be an easy job for anybody. But at least you would have eliminated the one thing that is the biggest electrical menagerie where possibly one little short (that maybe you cannot see) is going on.

Joe, too bad when you had the door switch out, that for the fun of it, if you removed one of the wires from it, (if then you left the bulb in), if the fridge works. Thren you would know it is in the bulb wiring for sure, and not something weird with the force of the bulb in the socket maybe pressing on something in the control panel?

I will be laying in bed thinking about this one tonight.

But gdoug does have a point comparing cost of a new board to a tech call. If by chance you put the board in and it didn't work, then you'd have to trace down wires/connections like a tech would. It would not be an easy job for anybody. But at least you would have eliminated the one thing that is the biggest electrical menagerie where possibly one little short (that maybe you cannot see) is going on.

just pulled out door switch and uncliped one prong and same thing.:thumbdn:

I gotta think about this one.

I bet the electricans (our ac/dc electrical forum) would enjoy trying to solve this one also.

So - we know that you have a bulb installed where now we even have a broken current flow to or from the bulb. Yet by virtue of that bulb still being in that socket, even though the switch has been disconnected, your fridge still wil not work with the bulb in there. Yet will if you unscrew that bulb. I have to stop and think. Thought I'd respond though to let you know I am thinking. :confused:

Were there 2 wires on the switch? Did you try unplugging both or even the other one?

What is directly above the light bulb socket or to the rear-end of the bulb socket?

Do you have a multi-meter, so you can pull the switch out of the cabinet, leave the wires connected, leave the bulb in, then test voltage from each door switch spade to metal ground while pushing in the button, and then also when letting the button pop back out.

AND, what does the fridge do if you push in on the buitton with the door switch outside the cabinet? Use caution in all tests, obviously. This puzzle is getting to me.

Is the socket for the bulb all plastic, and snapped in place with plastic?, or any metal on metal?

Have you tried a different light bulb???????

..............................................................

Jsut got a maintenance cal and have to run: Flood by washign machine..wil return soon. Hopefully youcan do soem of what was requested.

I gotta think about this one.

I bet the electricans (our ac/dc electrical forum) would enjoy trying to solve this one also.

So - we know that you have a bulb installed where now we even have a broken current flow to or from the bulb. Yet by virtue of that bulb still being in that socket, even though the switch has been disconnected, your fridge still wil not work with the bulb in there. Yet will if you unscrew that bulb. I have to stop and think. Thought I'd respond though to let you know I am thinking. :confused:

Were there 2 wires on the switch? Did you try unplugging both or even the other one?

What is directly above the light bulb socket or to the rear-end of the bulb socket?

Do you have a multi-meter, so you can pull the switch out of the cabinet, leave the wires connected, leave the bulb in, then test voltage from each door switch spade to metal ground while pushing in the button, and then also when letting the button pop back out.

AND, what does the fridge do if you push in on the buitton with the door switch outside the cabinet? Use caution in all tests, obviously. This puzzle is getting to me.

Is the socket for the bulb all plastic, and snapped in place with plastic?, or any metal on metal?

Have you tried a different light bulb???????

..............................................................

Jsut got a maintenance cal and have to run: Flood by washign machine..wil return soon. Hopefully youcan do soem of what was requested.

OK i put a volt meter on the switch with lightbulb out on 20dcv it came up 0.14 on both prongs.

With switch out (like door is open) one prongs one side 0.14 and outher prong 0.18.

With bulb back in digital lights stay on until switch is pushed in and let go.

With bulb in not pushed (like door is open) NO power.

With switch pushed and held one side 0.14, other side 0.

With switch disconnected one wire 0.14, other side 0.

Then with lightbulb out, switch not in the digital display turns back on, one side 0.8, other side 0.11.

But no more humming when lightbulb in, fridge is now working but digit display does not.

Light bulb is surrounded by plastic, it is on the top of the fridge at the back of the bulb is the vent to the freezer. With no switch in the digit display goes out right away.

I kept a thermometer in and fridge is working, even with a new lightbulb in. (I did try a new lightbulb before) Could it have been 2 different problems? Loose connection? Or am I waiting for a fire to happen?

Bulb is now out of socket.

I'm here reading your reply now. The answer may or may not take a while depending on what all you say, but I will be back soon with a reply. I see your light is on. And I see you said a lot of things.

.......................................
Okay. Stop.
20vdc setting? Is that correct to be doing for your unit? Could be, as I am not familiar yet with digital refrigerators, in all their little idiosyncracies. If you instead set to 120 vac, what do you get? I thought yesterday that you did test in VAC voltage. ???

With bulb back in digital lights stay on until switch is pushed in and let go.

If the switch is "open"(disconencted), does or does not the digital and/ or the fridge work?

...........................................................

I just spent a 1/2 hour or so and lost a revised post. Never had a revised post where I actually had it up on the board, but then have it disappear, before. I am fuming!!!

I am going to make this short now: After considering the switch testing of yours:....pushing it in, leaving it go..... it first works......then does not work (probably until fridge gets reset)...

....it does appear that in consideration of the various interconnected circuitrys of the board, it may be as gdoug suggested, the board causing this.

If you take the gamble and replace it, make sure water from a dispensor problem or defrost water or whatever did not cause this short. If so, correct this before installing a new board.

Had a repair man in on monday he said it might be the control board.For $ 300.00 and service charge we could try. he told me it would not catch on fire if i leave it as is. fridge is working but no light ,no problem with bulb, or door switch. he told me because of the wiring from the bulb goes into the top of the fridge it cant be traced, and because the wires from the bulb dont go to the display it has to be the board.So for now thats that.Thank you for your sugestions. Joe

Had a repair man in on monday he said it might be the control board.For $ 300.00 and service charge we could try. he told me it would not catch on fire if i leave it as is. fridge is working but no light ,no problem with bulb, or door switch. he told me because of the wiring from the bulb goes into the top of the fridge it cant be traced, and because the wires from the bulb dont go to the display it has to be the board.So for now thats that.Thank you for your sugestions. Joe

Joe, you around anymore?

I'd like to review your situation, and your tests regarding the switch and bulb. And maybe other thinkers that understand basic electricity would like to get in on the fray.

Somehow that fridge 'knows' there is a lightbulb in there and there has to be a way of finding that out. When I get some time, as I need to be at work, I want to see if fridge light switches are usually on a 'switched loop', or not. If so we can do further tests with the switch, with bulb in or out. Or if you have already done that, I will review the proper thread posts. Something just does not make logical sense.

It's odd that when the bulb should be off, when the door is closed, that something would 'know' that bulb is in there or not. Different if the bulb was stuck lit up, with the door on. Then maybe one could reason that the control board has somehow 'learned' this and shuts the fridge down to convserve on the compressor running all the time.

I also do not buy the techs reasoning that the wiring is hidden. Yes, the wire will be, in areas. But not the connectors. And it is very very unlikely that a wire failure occured out of the blue, within the unaccessible area of the cabinet.

And if it did, what wire could be affected, if the lightbulb wire is already turned off at the switch? How could the bulb affect it then?????

Joe, you around anymore?

I'd like to review your situation, and your tests regarding the switch and bulb. And maybe other thinkers that understand basic electricity would like to get in on the fray.

Somehow that fridge 'knows' there is a lightbulb in there and there has to be a way of finding that out. When I get some time, as I need to be at work, I want to see if fridge light switches are usually on a 'switched loop', or not. If so we can do further tests with the switch, with bulb in or out. Or if you have already done that, I will review the proper thread posts. Something just does not make logical sense.

It's odd that when the bulb should be off, when the door is closed, that something would 'know' that bulb is in there or not. Different if the bulb was stuck lit up, with the door on. Then maybe one could reason that the control board has somehow 'learned' this and shuts the fridge down to convserve on the compressor running all the time.

I also do not buy the techs reasoning that the wiring is hidden. Yes, the wire will be, in areas. But not the connectors. And it is very very unlikely that a wire failure occured out of the blue, within the unaccessible area of the cabinet.

And if it did, what wire could be affected, if the lightbulb wire is already turned off at the switch? How could the bulb affect it then?????

Sorry i have not looked back in awhile. iam frustrated, i was thinking to buy a manual to search more for the problem, there has to be a way to narrow down the problem.My whole house has the flu ( wicked flu ) so i have not felt much like looking for the problem. my tester is a innova 3310 should i have it on bat load test 12 v to start following wires? i think i can follow all of them so i will no where the short is. the weird thing is the wires that go to the bulb dont go to the display i keep trying to add a picture but being sick i cant figre out how.

Okay. Here we go: Let's presume for a moment that the problem is electrical.

Okay. Now we know that if it is, then power going to the lightbulb is causing this. Otherwsie how would the fridge know not to work with it in? If it is electrical related, and not say the force of the bulb pushing on something behind the socket.....

....if that is true, then you would think the door switch has to stop the power even getting to the bulb.

And if the power is stopped from getting to the bulb.....then how does the fridge's electrical circuits know if the builb is even in or out???????

I was thinking about this problem again thsi morning. It's actually kind of maddening. It is making a fool of us. It seems impossible. If you did not seem like a sincere guy, I'd think you were making this up.

Can you take a volt test and see if when you disonncect the door switch, and have the 2 wires dangling there, if one of those wires has 120 beween it and any metal ground of the fridge? I am trying to establish if on your fridge, if current first goes to the switch and then the bulb, or if to the bulb first, and then the switch is on the neutral return path. Then also, check the other dangling door switch wire to make sure that if 120 juice is in the one wire, that it also is not in the other wire.

Deleted double post...........................

I found a wiring diagram for your fridge. The fresh food lights gets power from the control board at P2-9 (yellow/red) to the door switch. (The freezer lights get power directly from the house outlet).

I think we are going overboard trying to figure out the problem here. The only thing I can think of that would eliminate the possibility that it is not the control board is to do the following:

Unplug the fridge, disconnect the P2 connector from the board, gain access to all fresh food light wire connectors and check the hot wire (yellow) to ground to see if you are getting any resistance there. If no resistance (open circuit). Replace the control board.

I think we are going overboard trying to figure out the problem here.

Overboard? How can it be if the answer has not been found yet?

Hopefully joe conducts the suggested tests, so this gets resolved to everyone's satisfaction and curiousity.

What I meant was we were looking too hard to find the problem without the right resources. We just have to sit down and study the wiring diagram to check the wiring.

gdoug,

You do follow my logic though about the door switch, right?

If the door switch is doing it's job and shutting off the power coming from the circuit board to the light switch and onto the bulb......how does it(the circuit board?) "know" the bulb is in or removed, if the switch is off. ??????

Looking at the wiring diagram power comes to the switch through P2-9 (yellow/red). On the other side of the switch (Yellow) runs both back to the control board at P2-3 and to all the fresh food lights. So there is a wire from the control board going to both sides of the fresh food door switch. Why exactly? I don't know but that has to be where the problem is.

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab314/gdoug1529/NewPicture.jpg

I've been dying to get on this computer all day. It came to me that it has to be the door switch(related -not necessarily switch itself), if 120 current gets to the switch, and no current is on the wh. neutral side(doubtful), and the fact the unit does not run with the bulb in.

When the switch is depressed, essentially killing voltage to the bulb(s), there is no way the circuit board could know whether the bulb is in or out.

And if the switch acts properly when removed(in other words, that it is good.....which can easily be testd for volts and continuity) -

-I vote that the door is not depressing the switch properly when the door is closed. It has to be that. (Either that or there has been some misinformation given.)

I am not sure what kind of switch is used. If the pushbutton type in the side of the door, it is less likely to be problem with the door alignment and more likely has a glitch during the travel of that button. If instead it has one of those rocker type switches that is at the top of the door, they are prone to not 'close' if the door settles lower in the switch area.

A good test for the light switch theory is to put the bulb in, and when the fridge does not run and all that runs is the bulb, see if the KillAWatt says 29-40 volts, when the door is closed. Then do the same test with the door open, and manually depress the switch, and see if then it goes to 0 volts. If it does, it is the switch, or door alignment problem.

The fridge and crisper bulb circuit is only a one hot to neutral circuit. I thought it was the fridge bulb he was having trouble with. If so, what I have said would apply. It just has to be switch/door alignment related, if that is the case.

I'm sounding like a broken record, but the wiring to those bulbs (fridge/crisper) is basic - and no way can a shut switch (which "opens", or kills, the circuit) make it so by removing the bulb can affect anything since the circuit is already now "open".

.....................................................................

I see that P2-3 forks off the same door switch terminal. This still should have no effect on my reasoning, since when the door is closed, that should "open" (or kill) the current to the bulb and P2-3 at the same time. And once again, if the current is effectly killed at the door switch(when the door is closed), unscrewing the bulb should have no effect on an already dead circuit.

Joe, There is an incoming 120 volt hot wire to the door switch, and two other wires tied together (= 3 total wires, but only likely 2 terminals) where of those 2 tied-together common ones, one goes to the fridge and crisper bulbs, while the other wire in common goes to the circuit board.

There are a couple simple voltmeter tests you can do to determine if the circuit board is improperly backfeeding juice down the P2 -3 wire to the lights - or, if the switch itself is bad to where it say only works when depressed a certain amount - or, if the door is ill-fitting to the switch and trying to keep the light bulb on all the time or not. The most crucial test is finding out if P2-3 wire is hot, even if removed from the door switch. If it is hot, and the single yellow/red switch wire is also, then you have a bad circuit board. But if the P2 -3 wire tests 0 volts to metal ground when off the door switch (0 volts is how it should be. It should only be on the receiving end of 120 volt power when the door is open(switch closed), I'd say the problem is in the door switch or a misalignment with the door when it is being closed.