Water Softeners and Air Filtration Systems - What are pros and cons of Salt Free softeners?

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DIYrip
10-13-09, 06:19 AM
I am planning to replace an existing (dying) culligan water softener, and would like to know whether the salt free softeners are worth looking into. Thanks..


biermech
10-13-09, 02:43 PM
Don't waste your time or money. They just don't work.

Gunguy45
10-13-09, 03:06 PM
You'll find all sort of information..but most of it is from overseas...I don't think I've ever seen any truly impartial scientific studies that say they are effective.

If they did work and were cost effective..I think they would be the best thing since sliced bread.

No Pro..but glad I didn't waste my money on one.....


shane21
10-17-09, 12:06 PM
Do enough reading and you will find companies who actually list the limits within which their units will work. The info I read a few years ago on the technology showed that the some of the units do "work" but are only effective up to about 21 GPG hardness and even limit was SEVERELY affected by iron in the water. Also the technology is based on suspension of material in water as it does not remove the hardness but rather "suspends" it in the water keeping it from leaving a residue on surfaces. Most units indicated the "suspension" only lasts about 30 minutes once the water has passed through the unit so why the water is continuously running it is "working" but if the faucet is turned off and left off for a period of time, when it is turned back on the water will be "untreated" until the lines is filled with "treated" water again.

The biggest issue I saw with recommending this technology to customers was that it sounded to me like they would be completely useless if installed to protect hot water tanks, which is one of the main reasons people in environments where they might work - under 20 GPG hardness with no iron -
would be installing them. Water sits in a hot water tank for days before being completely turned over so the "suspension" would be clearly ineffective.

My other concern was how they deal with water during extended periods of high flow rates. If someone is running one faucet at 2.2 GPM I'm guessin flow isn't a problem, but what if 8 GPM is being used in the house for a consistent 20 minutes?
I could not find ANY information on this worry at all.

Bob999
10-17-09, 02:29 PM
A traditional softener uses an "ion exchange" process. A softener replaces hard water ions--primarily calcium and magnesium--with sodium. A softener also replaces iron and manganese ions with sodium.

All of the "alternatives" I am aware of do not do an ion exchange--rather they advertise that they in some way reduce the effects of hard water ions.

So--if you want to soften your water you need to use an ion exchange softener.

greg-cws
10-19-09, 12:52 PM
There is only one way to properly "soften" water. You have to physically remove hardness ions from the water.

Ion exchange and nanofiltration (membrane separation) are the only legitimate technologies that I would stake my professional reputation on when it comes to truly softening water.

Nanofiltration is a truly salt-free technology, but the initial investment is high and usually unrealistic for residential applications. As with all emerging technologies, the investment and TCO are dropping with time and I believe that these systems will become much more prevalent within the next 5 years.

The "salt-free" systems that you see advertised are not really softeners, but rather "soft water alternatives" or "scale control devices". There are hundreds of vendors peddling these alternative technologies with glowing testimonials and anecdotal evidence, but very little peer-reviewed data or 3rd-party validation. Most that I have seen do not work at all.

The German DVGW W512 standard validates "scale control" devices, and NSF/WQA should have a test protocol hammered out shortly that will offer the same validation in the USA.

I have worked with devices that are validated by DVGW W512 and been pleasantly surprised by how well they prevent scale formation in commercial, industrial and residential applications. In spite of their efficacy in scale control, these devices are not softeners and do not remove hardness ions, so they have no net effect on soap/detergent like softened water will.

My advice to you - caveat emptor. Have reasonable expectations, get all promises in writing and do your research.

Greg Reyneke
CWS-VI

AquaSysTech
11-06-09, 02:56 PM
The “pro” is that they don’t use salt. The “con” is that they have not been proven to do anything at all. When you look at claims closely, you’ll find that they do not “soften” water.