Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - Forced kitchen remodel

We have been living with a very "unique" kitchen configuration for a decade now, knowing that we wanted to make some changes but not prepared to take them on yet, given family budgetary limitations and hesitancy to lose use of our kitchen which is a busy place with two small kids who are constantly hungry. Now, water damage is forcing us to act...We have had a dishwasher under our very shallow and small kitchen sink (5'' deep, 22'' long and 16" wide), which we've recently had to remove to get at 2 leaks (both the faucet and the drain were leaking) causing water to seep through the underlayment/subfloor of our kitchen leaving a roughly 3' x 6' path of buckled and broken ceramic tiles on either side of a peninsula (so apparently the underlayment/subfloor beneath it has been damaged by water also). Having gotten in under the sink, we've been unable to remove the drain assembly to repair the leak (suspect that someone used some permanent-type adhesive to seal a prior leak). The dishwasher still functions, but is probably on its last leg (repeated repairs over last few years, including one to repair leak that caused prior damage to the floor (we had to replace part of underlayment and use up the last of our original 8”x8” tiles). We had to move our refrigerator from beside (2” to the right) the sink-over-dishwasher area to get access to the leaks, so that has now been relocated into our former breakfast nook, leaving a space where an under-counter dishwasher would logically go. So we are now looking at replacing countertop, faucet, sink, sink base cabinet (actually this would be an addition since there wasn’t one there before) and flooring. We are hoping to handle a fair bit of the work ourselves in order to save money, and I’m trying to figure out ways to sequence the various parts of the job to minimize the loss of use of our kitchen. Is there a way to get around removing everything from the kitchen all at once, or does our need to replace underlayment/subfloor pretty much demand pulling out everything on the floor? Should we focus on floor first and then address sink, etc, or vice-versa? Once subfloor is repaired, should we put new flooring down first over entire area, then re-install base cabinets, or install cabinets first and then tile around them? We are looking at going for flooring less costly than the ceramic tiles, and are considering vinyl tiles, but worry about potential for future water damage if water gets between the tiles…any thoughts on flooring options? I would welcome any suggestions or insights into how to approach this job overall.

Welcome!

It would help us if you used some paragraphs next time. I had to reread your post a couple times just to find the questions, but let me see if I got them all.

Is there a way to get around removing everything from the kitchen all at once, or does our need to replace underlayment/subfloor pretty much demand pulling out everything on the floor?

Yes you can. You would have to move your fridge to the living room and get a hot plate to cook food.

Should we focus on floor first and then address sink, etc, or vice-versa?


Make sure the leak is stopped, then replace the entire subfloor. If you are going to want ceramic tile back in there, then make sure the plywood is at least 5/8" thick exterior glue grade (NOT pressure treated). I would personnally like to see at least 3/4".

Once subfloor is repaired, should we put new flooring down first over entire area, then re-install base cabinets, or install cabinets first and then tile around them?

If your budget is really tight, which most are anyways, then install your cabinets first, then lay your flooring. This saves money by not having to purchase additional tile to go under the cabinets, which serves no real purpose anyways.

any thoughts on flooring options?

There's lot of different vinyls out there that look pretty good. It's your call. I'm a tile guy, so I'm biased.

Plan on taking at least 2-3x longer then you expected to finish the project. Things usually do pop up during renovation that was not planned for. Also, not sure if you are doing any electrical work, but if your kitchen is gutted, they usually want you to bring your electrical up to code in the kitchen, i.e. two dedicated 20amp circuits serving the countertops, etc. I would worry about this if your city requires permits.

DIYLearner - We went through a total DIY kitchen remodel a couple of years ago. Some things to consider .

Setting up a temporary kitchen in another room is easy and cheap. We bought a dual hotplate, a small microwave and a cheap toaster oven. I used a couple of our old cabinets with a piece of laminated particle board as a temp countertop. I bought a cheap stainless sink from HD and reused the old faucet from our existing kitchen. I built a temporary cabinet for the sink and put casters on it so I could move it around. We also cooked out on the grill as much as possible.

When I demo'd the kitchen I removed everything down to the studs then I put the temporary sink back. The refrigerator went outside (we were replacing it) but we continued to use it until I got the new one was installed. Our kitchen was out of commision for a couple of months but it was worth it.

For the floor, if the budget allows, go for tile. I don't think you will be happy with vinyl tile. Tile is easy to install and if the substrate is properly prepared it will last forever and add to the value of your home.

Shop around for tile and don't limit yourself to the big box stores. Look for discontinued styles that suit your tastes.

Thanks to Wayne Mitchell and HOtinOKC for your thoughtful responses.

Wayne, I particularly like your idea of a mobile, temporary sink! Just to be clear...you would disconnect supply line and move it out of kitchen during floor work, then roll back in when space was clear, or did you just have a longer, flexible supply hose so you could jocky the sink in one direction or another while working? (trying to picture it :)

HotinOKC, sorry about long narrative...being a newbie, I didn't realize how it would appear...thanks for taking the time to sort out my many questions! A follow-up question regarding your advice about thickness of plywood under floor..someone else recently told me that underlayment for ceramic tile should be cement board, not ply (which we have currently under ceramic along with multiple partial layers of other old flooring materials)...is that your understanding? And, if we go with a vinyl tile, then appropriate underlayment would be ply or luan?

Hi!

Take a look here for some info regarding your plywood subfloor. It should answer all the questions you asked me.

http://forum.doityourself.com/flooring-tile/388388-subfloor-standards-long-lasting-tile-installation.html

Thanks...very helpful info regarding ceramic tile! As I continue to assess flooring options, I came across what appears to be an interesting newer product....HD sells a groutable vinyl tile, which would seem to address one of the potential shortcomings of regular vinyl tile - permeable seams. What do you know about this product and would you recommend?