Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - screen room -attach it??

I am planning to build a small (8 x 8) screen room on our stone patio off the kitchen.
The roof will be shed style with clear poly (for sun) and I am using all cedar (posts, rafters).

I was thinking about the idea of building this free-standing, but touching the side of the house (cedar shingles). We would walk out of the kitchen right into the room just down 2 steps. By doing this, I don't have to worry about 2 things: 1. frost heave of the stone patio, and 2. future problem of selling without a permit - if it's not attached I don't think a permit is needed. Even if it is a problem in the future, I could tear it down.

Problems - How to hold it down? I would not be able to flash the poly roof to the side of the house and this would allow rain to run down the house into the room. It would not be as strong (not attached). It will be hard to keep insects out from the space between the house and the new posts near the house.

If I did attach the roof to a ledger, could frost cause me grief? I have never seen evidence of the patio heaving but may not have noticed. The stones are just setting over sand and are mortered. I would love to start with 4 cedar 4x4 posts with a ledger attached to hold each 2x6 rafter. But, each post would rest on the patio. Is the only alternitive to dig out 4 holes for sono-tube concrete footings? Is this overkill? It is such a small structure it will take longer to do the footings than it will to build the darn thing.....:madhell:

PS - I live in lower NY state - where I am it almost never goes below 10 degrees.

I just started reading the post - "PLEASE HELP! 13x15 COVERED PATIO" - I guess this is a similar situation, but my roof will only be 8x8 and I will be using ALL cedar even for the rafters. I am probably going to be told I need to dig 4 holes 4 feet down and install cbsq fittings. I guess I'll wait to get some advice.

If I do attach to the house, do the rear posts attached to the house need to be on footings? Couldn't I just leave those two posts 1/2" off the ground and rely on the ledger to hold that end of the roof?

Nope, follow Mike's advice on that post and you won't go wrong. (just don't get into a sparring match with him as that poster did....longest post in history, I believe). Same construction methods if it is 15' or 8'. You will have to do the hole thingy. If you attach it to the house, yes, you will probably eliminate the posts against the house and build it conventionally with ledgers, etc.

Something I don't understand, maybe a dumb question, but here goes - If wind is such a threat to raise the weight of the entire stucture without support to concrete footings, what will keep my clear poly roof from getting wripped off? The only thing holding the roof on are small screws going into the rafters.

I also don't understand why sheds don't blow over. Many, including mine are built just on skid foundations and not "connected" to the ground. I have two doorways on my shed that are always open (just covered with tarps), so it seems wind could get through the doorways and lift my shed.
Do I need to get doors on ASAP!

Please - anyone, explain this to me.

tomfmal,

At 8 X 8 you really only need 2 footings if you ledger the roof. Put in the 2 outside corner posts and put a beam across to support you joists. That will be a lot less work and probably less expensive (half as much concrete and only 2 CBSQ's).

"Clear poly" roofing -- I imagine you are talking about Sun Tuff, or something very similar. As long as you've got the closures under it and all the screws in that are called for, chances are it won't blow off. Those screws have a firly good sized washer under them, and that stuff is pretty durable. (Any cutting that you need to do is best done with tin snips.)

Read through a lot of what I said in the "Please help -- 13' X 15' patio cover" thread. (It's save me having to retype and rethink it all!!)

And Larry, in the "Please help ..." thread, jmmc didn't get into any sort of sparring match. He just had a LOT of questions. (Pretty much one every step of the way.) And you're right, it's probably the longest thread in the history of this forum. If not the longest, it's awfully close!! But I think that one is pretty much finished, unless jmmc posts some finished photos.

Lefty,
Thanks! I read the "please help" thread but still have a few questions now and will ask you if my plan seems OK.

The Plan: I will use a ledger - a 2x4 lag screwed into the house catching the wall studs. This 2x4 will be situated between the 4x4x10' posts which will also be attached to the house but not resting on the stone flooring since there will be no footing under them. I will rest 2x6 rafters on top of the ledger. I will dig 2 footings for 4x4x8' posts to hold up the other end of the roof. I will use a double 2x8x8' beam between those posts.
The rafters will rest on top of that beam, probably birdmouthed.

Here are the questions I have:

1. What size holes do I need to dig, and do I need to use sonotube? I was thinking of using a posthole digger (own one) and just filling the hole with concrete.
2. At what point do you stick the CBSQ into the concrete?
3. How in the world do I get the CBSQ in the proper position? Edit - I think I can figure this one out...... I have a plan.
4. I am thinking of using cedar for everything (For looks), but am concerned about a few things:
A. Will the sun-Tuff screws hold OK in a cedar rafter?
B. How do I attach the cedar rafters to the ledger and the beam without metal fasteners? Can I use galvanized screws toed in? I am not crazy about looking up at the metal braces but if they are needed then I'll just do it.
5. I did not follow the talk about further bracing needed in the other thread. Do I need to do more than I mentioned?
6. Am I correct to leave the 4x4 posts against the house at least 1/2" off the stone floor (to protect against heaving)? I realize that I don't need these posts with a ledger, but feel I need them for both looks and to give me something to attach the screen and lower siding to.

Sorry for all the questions ......
Tom

Tom,

You must have read all the way thru the "Please Help" thread (I noticed that you were in the deck forum for a LONG time!!), and you feel like you need to APOLOGIZE for asking a couple of questions?? HA!!! After that one, I think everybody knows better!

Let's start this at the top. At 8X8, you will have 5 joists at 24" O.C. (Fudge them in a little bit as needed.) 2X8's will work for that, unless you are dealing with a 40lb. or better snow load. You ledger needs to be the same size as the joists, and you HANG the joists on the ledger using Simpson LU hangers. (LU28 for 2X8's or 2X10's.) This helps prevent the joists from laying over (falling on their side). It also allows you to stagger the bolt pattern of the ledger so that 1/2 of the bolts are in the top 1-1/2" and the other half are in the bottom 1-1/2". The prevents the ledger from twisting off of the wall.

Two footings and 4X4 posts are fine. A dbl 2X8 beam is perfect. But you can't notch a 4X4 to set a dbl 2X beam in it. That only leaves 1/2" of the 4X4. Instead, use a Simpson BCS2-2/4 cap sitting on top of the post and set your beam in that.

What size holes? Is frost an issue?? (NY, I'm guessing that it is.) You need to go down 6" deeper than the frost line (ask your local bldg. dept. what that is), pour a 12 X 12 X 12 footing in the bottom of that, then sonotube up with a 10" sonotube, backfilling around the outside with dirt as the concrete goes in to keep the tube plumb. Set your CBSQ in the top of the tube when you get to grade.

Since your beam will be at the outside edge of the roof (I'm assuming that it will be), you can use the same LU hangers to attach your joists to it, or you can rest them on top and block between the joists. (Again, to prevent them from twisting or laying over.)

Since you are ledgered at the wall, you are fine at that end as far as bracing. At the beam, you'll need some lateral support. That's probably going to be a 2X6 or 2X8 diagonal brace from each post to the beam. There are other ways, but that is quick and easy.

Attaching the 4X4's to the wall of the house will allow you to leave them 1/2" off of the stone. They are only there to give you something to attach the screening to.

The Sun Tuff screws will work fine in cedar. If I remember right, they have 2 different lengths. If so, use the longer ones.

Thanks! Ya - I was doing alot of reading yesterday- and coffee drinking!! :coffee: I'm with you on everything. I only have a couple more questions before I start -

1. I assume that you are saying I should use Douglas Fir for the ledger, joists, and beam and only cedar for the posts. I wanted to use cedar for everything - is there a problem with this besides cost? I know it is soft and there may be a "screw holding issue". Should I drop the cedar idea?

2. Can I use a 2x6 for a ledger with 2x6 joists if I keep them at 16" on center? I would still use a double 2x8 beam. Perhaps I need the 24 center spacing for the Sun-Tuff style roofing :confused:

3. Can I through bolt the beam to the face of the two front posts instead of the BCS-2 caps? I am thinking 3 - 3/8" bolts on each side.

4. If I let the joists rest on top of the beam do I need to birdmouth the joists or can I just use two screws on an angle through each joist in to the beam (toe-screwing I guess I would call it).

Doug fir is stronger than cedar. But, if you use cedar 2X6's at 16" OC for the joists, it'll be fine. (DF @ 24" OC would work as well.)

The Sun Tuff panels are 24" wide. If you space the joists @ 24", all of the panel laps will occur on top of the joists. At 16" OC, 2 out of 3 laps will occur between the joists. It's strictly a visual thing, although it's really not that noticable. If see it done both ways. You will have 3 rows of between the joist blocking going across to support the closures (plus the beam and the ledger -- 5 rows of closures total).

Face bolting the beam to the posts is weak. Setting the beam on top of the posts is stronger. I understand that you are trying to get away from looking at all of the attachment hardware. Paint it! A can of brown spray paint would pretty much hide it.

You won't need to birdmouth the joists. There won't be enough slope to the roof to make that necessary. (I usually use 3/8" or 1/2" per slope slope on solid covers like this.) The top of the beam is only 3" wide. At 1/2" per foot slope, the gap on the high side of the beam is only 1/8".

I am actually going to have a pretty good pitch. I need to start above the door which puts my ledger at 10' off ground. I have two steps down onto the patio. At the other end, I thought I would drop to 7 ' 6" off the ground. It seems silly to keep that end up higher and I like the look of a good pitch. My house is a Cape with very steep roofs so it would lend itself better.

So with this pitch - can I use 2x6 rafters at 24 center? I could even use a double 2x6 in the center.

Your right - I really don't like the look of the darn metal fasteners. I will do more or spend more to avoid them.
I also really wanted to use cedar for everything - what about this idea:

If I had a 3rd post in the middle (will probably want something there anyway for the screening), could I not use a double 2x6 Cedar beam. This way I could use 2x6 Cedar for everything which is far easier to get and less costly.
What are your thoughts on this?

Pictures by tomfmal - Photobucket (http://s925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/tomfmal/)

The new roof would start where the existing one is between the door and window, and end at the corner of the house. Sorry the house looks so bad at this point.....still under construction with new door and windows.

OK, given that picture, more slope would look better. But won't that interfer with the window on the left side of the picture? I'm assuming that you will be staying a little bit away from the overhang and rain gutter above the window on the left as well. With that much pitch, then you would birdmouth the joists.

There are several species of cedar, and I'm not sure which one you will be using. I'm not sure that a "cedar" 2X6 will span 8' with the joists @24" OC, but it will @ 16" OC.

Simpson hardware isn't there for looks, it's there to hold the structure together. I would be VERY CAREFUL about trying to build a wood structure like this without using it. It simply gives you a method to obtain a stronger connection. (Beam sitting on top of the posts instead of bolted to the face of them, etc.)

I like the idea of the 3rd post. No chance of overspanning the beam, PLUS it gives you something to attach the screening to.

Yes I was going to start the roof between the door and the small window as to let light in the small window and the large one on the other wall.

I have one other idea that I keep thinking about. Do you think it would look better to start the roof off the existing one (to the left) about 3' up that roof, and then slope to the corner of the building? I have seen this done. If I did this I would gain a couple of things.
I would have a bigger room and I think I can get away with one post since the starting joist would attach to the house all the way across above the door.

The only disadvantage is that I would lose light in the windows.
Could I still use a clear roofing? How would the clear roofing flash into the asphalt roofing?

That would make more sense. Flashing isn't a problem. You are simply sliding a strip of galvanized tin under the roofing and seling it and allowing the lower edge of that strip to lay on top of the acylic. A roll of flashing 15" to 18" wide would be plenty.

You would flash the first panel to the wall (above the door) the same way -- under the siding and on top of the panel. That would need to be the same width of flashing. Both need to cover about 4" of the panel.

You wouldn't lose a great deal of light as long as you are using the clear panels.

Thanks - you are leaning me in this direction now. I like having more space and only having to dig one footer.

One more thought I should throw out there to cover all the bases. I could take off the top 3 1/2" molding on the side window (the window NOT right next to the door). If I start as high as possible at the house under the roof with my new roof, I can get a very slight pitched shed roof. This way I would use a ledger on one side, and the sloped joist would connect to the other side of the house. I hope you can understand what I am saying.
In this case, I would only need one supporting post (in the same spot. The roof to the left would drain onto the new roof, or have its own gutter.
The advantage to this is much shorter joists (8' instead of possibly 16' ers the previous way). I would also leave the existing roof undisturbed.

I'm sorry to be thinking this thing to death, but I tend to do this. I get upset if I do something and later realize a better/easier method.

Thanks for your continued advice - much appreciated!!:o

That would work fine, and probably be a bit easier. If need be you could also rework the roof edge (the facia) a little bit and gain another inch or two that way as well, then flash between the house roof and the screenroom roof.

Think it all out now while changes are cheap.

Thanks Lefty,

This is looking like the "new best way". In the other post you said - "With a metal roof you only need a slope of about 3/8"/ft., so the slope is minimal."
I am going out only about 7' (joists will be about 8' long). Using 3/8" per inch I would need about a 2 5/8" difference from the ledger to the end of joists at the beam end. I'll check this morning to see if I can get this. I think I can if I use 2x6's.

There is only one design problem with this. If I build this in the corner, taking up the whole corner, the total size will be 11' x 7' x 10' off the ground. Will 10' off the ground have "too high of a feel" from inside and will it also look strange from the outside? Am I going to need to build a deck, which would allow me to walk right out into it without stepping down and creating an 8' high ceiling instead?

What is it about these jobs that it tends to snowball:wall:

Tom,

The 10' ceiling MIGHT give you the feeling of "too high". But don't worry about that yet. Build the cover first and, if later you decide to build the deck, that's very easy to do. HOWEVER, if you were to build the deck first, building the cover will become more difficult.

Granted, you cover is small enough it wouldn't be that difficult to install it over an existing deck, but I ALWAYS install the cover first and build the deck under it. It's just faster and a lot easier. (I presently have 2 bids out to cover existing decks, and there is definitely a premium in both of those bids to cover both additional labor and the difficulty involved.)

A slope of 3/8" per foot is fine. It is the MINIMUM amount of slope that you want, but it's enough with a solid panel roof like you will be using.

You have mentioned using just one post. I know what you're seeing and I know what you're thinking. But a second post (in the middle of the beam) would be better plus it would give you something to attach the screening to. And in you latest posting, you are saying that the room will grow to 11' wide. THAT answers the second post question -- you'll have to have it.

Good to know that it is better to do the roof first - I was thinking that it would help decide on a deck just by seeing it.
I see your point on another post, so I guess I need to dig for two.

I probably need a permit for the cover - how fast can I get one typically, and can I start without it??
If someone turns me in - can they make me tear down what I started? It is going going to get cold here before long so I don't have much time.

I was thinking..... I need to re-shingle that corner. If I tore off the shingles in the corner, started with the ledger, then install my 1st rafter on top of the big window, I could then figure where the beam will be, and attach my post along the house. At the other corner of the house, I could attach that post along the house. With both posts up, I could re-shingle the house. This would keep me pretty busy waiting for a permit, and I could always wait until spring to pick up where I left off. The two posts against the house would not be touching the ground.

My other thought was to NOT shingle the corner but rather just paint the 3/4 shiplap boards. Do you think a bit of rain blowing through the screen would be a big deal if I did not shingle under that cover?

Yes, more than likely the cover needs a permit. How long to obtain it varies, depending on the bldg. dept. that you're dealing with. It may be as quick as an 'over-the-counter' permit, which takes about 1/2 hour. But it may take a week, depending on how busy the plan checker is. (In this economy, probably not very!)

Could they make you tear it down? Yes.

You could install the ledgers, flash the one on the wall, and install the siding, as well as dig the footings before you actually had the permit in-hand. Just cover the holes with plywood or something so that nobody trips in them.

Great - I think I'll do that.
Any thoughts on whether I need to shingle in that corner under the roof?
I would rather not - cedar is expensive and I would prefer the look of painted shiplap boards (more room-like.

Today I am shingling the outside of the dinning room - I'll shoot you a pic.

After you look, can you think about something, please?
Do you think it would look better to start back a little from each corner (like 6" to a foot) or should I go flush to each corner so to fill up the entire area. I can't decide....

another view and new cedar picture by tomfmal - Photobucket (http://s925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/tomfmal/?action=view&current=IMG_0531.jpg)

I think if it were me, I would do the lap siding on BOTH walls inside the room. I'd lay out where each of the screened walls will terminate at the house walls and install a cedar 2X4 vertically there. That would give me a temination point for the shingles on the outside and the lapped on the inside, as well as a place to attach the screening.

What I WOULDN'T do is install shingles on all of the inside walls except right in the corner and fill that little bit in with the lapped.

What I meant when I said "the corner" was the whole interior of the new screen room. I could save alot of time and money by tearing of the existing shingles (need to do anyway) and then just paint the house wall 3/4 shiplap boards. Are you saying that it needs to be covered with my cedar or that it would just look better?
Tomorrow I'll call to see what is needed for a permit.

(OH!! I guess I better slow down and read more thoroughly!!)

We're on the same page. Do both walls inside the room with the 3/4 shiplapped boards. If the room doesn't go entirely to either of the 2 corners of the house, then use the cedar 2X4's I was talking about. Otherwise, the corner of the house could be used as your transition point.

Great! I'm on a roll ! I was worried you were going to say that too much rain would blow through the screens, onto the painted shiplap and might cause a problem.
Thanks - I'll keep you posted on my progress!

Well, rain IS going to blow through the screens -- we both know that. So you just have to finish the lapped siding like lapped siding that's exposed WITHOUT the screenroom. A decent coat of exterior paint or sealer -- just like you would any other outside house wall. The difference is, this one will be fairly protected from the elements -- the finish will last longer.

Hey Lefty, Can I use a double 2x12 as the beam and that way only need to dig for ONE footer? I can put a "dummy post" (slightly off the ground) in the middle to attach my screen windows to. I need to get busy with my drawings as I want to go to get a permit asap.

I'm planning on using 4x4's at each corner and lag bolting with 5/16x 6 lags into the house. You see any problems with this?

Tom,

As long as you call for (and can find) an HUS210-2 or a HU212-2 to attach to the wall of the house (behind the siding) and set the dbl 2X12's in that, a single post will probably work.

(I know -- more of that damned Simpson stuff that you think is so ugly!! LOL! But this is what the bldg. dept. is going to want to see on the plans, and the inspector will actually want to see it. After he's gone, I'll send you to HD to get a couple cedar fence boards that you can cut up and cover it up with.)

You're going to be using quite a few "dummy posts" for something to attach the screening to.

I don't see any problem with lagging the 4X4's at each corner -- or even lag a single 2X4 with the bolts counter sunk then add another 2X4 over the top of it with screws.

And if you can't find the HUS or HU for dbl 2X12's, you might be able to rest the beam on these corner posts. I'd look for the hardware first, and if you can get it, show it that way on the plans and use it.

You can guess I don't own any stock in the Simpson company:rolleyes:
What did the old-timers do when they did not have that darn metal stuff;) I think Simpson is giving kickbacks to the building department:thinker:
Can't I just rest the double 2x12 on top of the 4x4 which is lagged to the house, and on top of the 4x4 post which will be the one on the footing? Do I need that HUS210 if I'm on the 4x4?

Setting the beam in the HU (whichever one you can find) will give it torsion strength -- prevent it from twisting. Resting it on the 4X4 won't do that.

I know what you mean about the kickback thing. But actually, Simpson HAS done the engineering, and their product has become the standard. As long as it's properly called for by the designer and used by the builder, the bldg. dept. is good with it. Everybody's on the same page. Simpson sure simplified things when they came into being in '56!!

Ugly -- well, yeah. But for strength and function, you can't beat it. So, AFTER the inspector has seen it, get creative with some cheap cedar fence boards and give it a decorative cover to hide it.

(We're gonna be at page #2 here pretty quick -- I think it goes about 40 posts per page. Not a problem.)

Mike

All right - I'll use that darn Simpson connector at the wall end. What do I use at the "footer post" end?

Can you give me any other advice on what I should have on my plans?
Thanks!

PS - I finished the cedar on the Dining room wall!

At the end of the beam where the footing is, the CBSQ at the bottom of course (embedded in the footing), and a BCS2-2/4 at the top of the post for the beam to sit in.

The drawing just needs to show what you are doing, with dimensions, and a few details like footing size, attachments of post to beam, beam to wall, blocking between the joists, and attaching the roof panels to the joists.

They know that you're just the homeowner; not a pro contractor, designer, or a draftsman. They won't expect perfection -- just something that they can plan check and do the inspection(s) from. Whatever you submit, they'll probably go over right there at the counter and make a few changes. But you can bet that they won't add ANY MORE SIMPSON STUFF than I'm telling you about!!:D:D

Thanks! One more issue (why are there always issues).
I decided that it would look best if the room was flush with the other walls - in other words, I would like to place each house mounted 4x4 so that it is flush with the ajoining wall.
This will cause a problem with that Simpson connector that you said to use for beam to wall (there won't be any wall on the other side of the connector to nail into. Same goes for my last rafter on the other side where I would use my joist to ledger connector.

Would this fly:

At the beam to house end - I would first place my 4x4 post where I want it, flush with the ajoining wall then I would lag a Douglas rafter onto the house - then nail a 2nd cedar rafter over top of it. These rafters would end just 1/2" over the 4x4.
When the double 2x beam goes on it will be against and screwed to the rafters. This would keep them vertical.

At the last rafter to house end - I would stop the ledger just short ( 1 1/2") of where the ajoining wall is then use two cedar rafters - one can screw into the end of the ledger and the other can nail along that one on the inside, both would sit on top of the 4x4. I could also use an angle bracket to further connect the inside rafter to the ledger.

Installing the beam flush with the house corner will be fine as far as using the HU or HUS hanger. Either one is "U" shaped, so the beam sits in it, and the nail flanges for both are inside the "U", so they will be behind the end of the beam.

As for your last joist (at the other corner), cut the ledger back 1-1/2" and make that joist 1-1/2" longer than the rest of them. It will be nailed into the END of the ledger, and the joist's end will be against the wall. Once all of the joists are actually up and nailed in place, install a block (same material as the joists) between the end joist and the next one in. That will also be nailed to the face of the ledger. Also put 3 nails through the outside joist into the block.

Now that I've read the 2nd 1/2 of your post, I would end the double rafters above the door at the 4X4 and let the beam sit on top of the 4X4. That way there is no butt end of the joist exposed on the outside. Everything else is fine.

i just recently purchased a sun porch kit it was all inclusive and went together without a hitch . it required no permit . i was going to build my own like you are doing but decided to go with the kit . they are made in the u.s.a and are top quality components . it goes together easily and now that we are finished we really enjoy the sun room . you may want to consider:coffee: this option . you can check them out at their internet location just type in sun porch . hope this helps you . george

I see - the HUSC has a concealed flange - I like that. Can I get concealed flanges for my joists hangers too, and then just drop them down into place?
George - thanks, I'll look into that. What is the brand name. I'm afaid that you may be talking about something like a 3 season but I want my shelter to be up all winter and we get some good winds.

I figured that you would like the concealed hanger! No, they don't make them for a single 2X -- not enough space inside to nail in.

Hey Lefty,
What do you think of the sunporch idea? It looks fully enclosed so that wnd could not get inside it to blow it away, no? Sure would keep the rain out too.
Beautiful sunroom kits from SunPorch. Create your Outdoor Room on your deck or patio. (http://www.sunporch.com/Content.aspx?pageid=DIOutdoorRoom)

It's certainly an option! I've done a lot of aluminum patio rooms -- some screened, most glazed. It will cost more up front than the wood structure you are planning, but maintenance will be virtually zero.

Check with your local bldg. dept. and see whether it would require a permit or not. The mfgr. has all of the required engineering if it does. (Around here, a permit would be needed. Other places might not require one. Only way to be sure is to ask.)

The only problem is height. It's 10' to the top of my door. I would need to build a deck to put it on, but it would be nice to walk right out onto it. Do they "attach" to the house? Are they windproof?

Yes, if you decided to go that route you would have to build the deck first.

Looking thru their website, they show you how it attaches to the house. 2X's lagged to the walls at each corner and then either a ledger across the top or one attached to the facia board of the overhang.

Man you ask a lot of questions, who would ever do that!Beer 4U2

Jmmc, - Ha - I learned from the best - you! :) Are you enjoying that beautiful cover you made? Your going to be sitting under your's drinking a cold one, while I am freezing by butt trying to build mine - somethings wrong with that picture:thinker:

I priced the 6'x9' sun-porch and it will run about $4,400 even with $1500 cash back. On top of that I would need to build a deck 1st, and the finished product would be smaller than mine. While I like the product, I am thinking of sticking to my "home made version". Thoughts?

Wow... Thats a little bit! My total bill for my 16'15'2" cover was about $650, including all bolts, screws, etc... Think stuff is a bit cheaper here, maybe? I got 13 2x8 for joist, and 4 2x12's for beam, 2 pt 2x8, 2 6x6x8 pt, and 2 6x6x10 pt for 265 here, and that gave me 2 left over 2x8's for scraps... (and they gave me 3 extra pieces that were slightly chipped, etc)

Lefty,
Is it going to be a trick to work on the house above that new clear roof? Plywood and then a ladder maybe:confused:?
I am wondering if it would be smarter to tear off my small roof and then finish that upper part of the house with an extention ladder this year and save the room for the spring.
I have two new windows to frame, then more shingle work, then priming and painting.
What would you do?

Take a peek at the 2nd photo I sent.

Good plan -- get everything done ABOVE where the room will be now, before the room is put in. I doubt that even plywood layed across the screen room roof would be enough support.

Sounds like a plan - I guess that room is not going up til spring.
How would you get to the very top of the house wall? The roof of the room below will prevent me from getting to it with an extension ladder from the ground. When I put that highest window in, I had my ladder leaning against the lower roof and then put a plank from the ladder to the roof - however- I can't reach much above the top of that window with this method. Do you need another picture showing the peak?

The picture that you have pretty much shows it -- I can imagine the rest. You may have to rent some scaffolding -- enough to put a tower on each side of the room and use a walk plank between them. You will probably have to rent an aluminum plank as well. I think it may be too much span for a 2X12 to be comfortable on.

You may be able to build a wood tower that would straddle the ridge of the roof and plank from the ladder to that. Might be able to rent a taller ladder and a ladder jack (rather than the scaffolding). Like you said, the ridge itself isn't high enough to get you up as far as you need to be.

Great - That's not the answer I was hoping for. What will I ever do in the future, for maintenance painting - after I build the room?

Vinyl siding comes to mind -- you hardly ever have to mess with that stuff!!

A couple of things come to mind.

First, I'm serious about the vinyl siding. Certainteed has vinyl that is similar to the cedar shingles you're putting on. And I'm sure Hardie has somthing along that line as well. Google those 2 and see what you come up with.

Second, the more I have thought about the plywood on the acrylic roof, the plywood would sit on the screw heads -- it wouldn't touch the acrylic. And the room roof, at a slope of about 3/8"/ft. would be flat enough that you would be OK putting a ladder on the plywood and getting on it.

While you guys are catching your breath.......I just installed that cedar shake look vinyl on a customer's eave last week, and man it goes up great and is really sturdy. It comes in 5' lengths and lock together rather well. The look is unmistakably "cedar shake", and with the right color, you could make it look like original. 5 sets of scaffolding high with stabilizers. Scaffolding rents for cheap, and I wouldn't work off a ladder unless I can't help it.
Ok, go ahead!

Larry

I don't think vinyl is an option. The front of the house is done and painted gray - my wife picked out the color after much much effort. The other side of the house is painted too in the same gray(except for the same high parts). AND - I just finished putting cedar up on that dining room. I don't see a good way to blend it in and certainly would not want to start from scratch. I think I am going to have to wait for spring, and then rent the scaffolding which I can use on the other side of the house at the same time and just paint the cedar, while repairing loose or missing sections. Then, I'll build the screen room, starting with the roof, and probably building a deck as well. I;ll have the winter to plan it and draw it up, and get the permit. Come spring I'll be a coiled spring. Like you said Lefty, I should be able to work off the new screenroom for any kind of maintenance which should be nil for at least 10 years:eek: I hope.

What do you all think of this plan? I will surely print and save this post as a reference, and hope your all still around in the spring to see how this thing turns out.

Thoughts? :coffee:

PS - I am thinking that I can build just one scaffold where the screenhouse will be and then plank onto the smaller roof (either the peek or to a ladder jack on that roof and tie to it).
Does this seem feasable?

Winter is closing in on me:wall:

Tom,

I just tossed the vinyl idea out there as an option. (I figured I was pushing my luck with the Simpson hdwr. and the vinyl would get shot down in a heartbeat!!):thinker:

Scaffolding is going to be the answer about how to get that high up the wall. Whether that is something you build yourself or rent -- that call is yours. Check into the rental cost and compare that with what you can do yourself.

Looks like you have about 6 months to plan things and get the details worked out. I've been here for almost 10 years -- I don't see myself going anyplace in the next 6 months or so. (But then too, no man has ever been promised a sunrise!!)

Mike

Thanks for all your advice. We have been thinking about the idea of building this screenhouse for a couple of years now.
I feel like it's getting close even though I should wait another winter out. I still have some unfinished work outside, and boy do I have unfinished projects inside. We'll get this darn thing up before long. Thanks again for all the help, Mike.