Wells, Sump Pumps and Septic Sewage Systems - No water since spring thaw

Hello,

NO WATER SINCE SPRING THAW ... garden/orchard/vineyard all DEAD dried up fire hazards now ...

Pump info:
Jensen Beam Balance Pump Unit - 10A32J24

Well info:
500' depth
405' to water
8" casing to 20'
5" casing to 460'
PVC casing
5+ GPM flow rate

Looking for the MOTOR specs/Prime Mover that will drive this unit. The original was removed by previous owners and is missing. I've tried several different motors but they all have burnt up either within a minute or two, or after several hours of pumping. The well data does not have the equipment listed only the drill and casing data. So, I've been at a loss as to what size (hp) and rpm of the motor I should be looking at as a correct replacement. UGH

I have contacted Jensen already, they referred me to another company here in Arizona, SunPumps, who wants to retro fit the well to a solar submersible, I would rather replace the prime mover with an original if possible. Something that is proven ya know.

I've searched since spring for a motor for this thing ... I've burnt up quite a few as well. A lot of time and money wasted so far.

No electricity out there yet, got my solar panels, components and batteries ready for install on the north parcel, just need water done first. As this well is on the south parcel and it feeds the property, well it used to feed the property ... we run gennys right now for elec ...

PUMP JACK SPECIFICATIONS
10A32J24
Maximum Polished Rod Length 3200#
Stroke Length 19.5"/20"
T-Base Weight 850#
Width 29"
Length 112"
Height 81"
Counter Balance Weight 130#
Gear Oil 90 WT. 7 Qts.

I did ask for the Prime Mover data from Jensen, they referred me to SunPumps as they are a listed service provider for them. And SunPumps wants to retro the beast.

I have the original pulley on the gear box, just no prime mover data. And the old motor is missing, original owners removed it when they vacated the property for some unknown reason.

Another issue all together, the proper direction of the motor? The gear box will rotate in both directions to move the head. And the beam can be moved by hand, we pumped a few gallons this way, boy that was some work.

Thanks,
Anthony

Am I reading wrong, or did I see these words, "JENSEN Beam Balance Units are best suited for shallow, low
production wells."
Jensen Pumping Units (http://www.jensen-products.com/pump.htm)

Five Hundred Feet is not exactly "shallow."

But if you are looking for a motor powerful enough to power the pump that deep, why don't you ask Jensen? They made the pump, they should know.

Oh, you did that, but they don't want to touch you. Guess why?

Seems like if you want to test, then rent a generator and borrow a motor and try it out. I would start with a 5HP motor and see what happens. I'm guessing that is at the low end of what you will need.

If it really does need a 5HP or more, man are you going to need a lot of solar panels.

Might want to listen to Jensen after all and talk to the other company. But I can tell you that pulling water up 500 feet will require power, lots of raw power. Doesn't matter what pump you use.

Something to think about . . . pumps push much better than they pull.

thanks Vey,

I already have gennys on the property, read the post. WOW ...

I'm NOT looking to TEST anything ... READ the post ... WOW...

Never wanted to BORROW a motor ... READ the post ... WOW...

But if you had read the entire post you would know that I've already contacted Jensen and they dumped me on someone else, that wants to replace the entire unit with something that MAY get a 7 year life span compared to a pumpjack that has life spans over 50+ years ...

This pumpjack is more than adequate to pump water from these depths. Maybe if you had done some research BEFORE posting your reply then you may have a different spin.

You want to know what size motor to use. The manufacturer will not help you. They don't want to help you for a reason -- do you know what reason that is?

You have tried several motors and you burned them up. WOW!

The basics are that make a motor burn up is that A: it is overloaded or B: It isn't getting enough of the correct power (voltage and amperage or quality).

So three reasons this could be happening:
1. You need a bigger motor (you don't say what sizes you burned up)
2. Your generator may not be big enough or your voltage is wrong (as in feeding the motor 120 when it is a 240 or vice versa).

3. The third is that there is something wrong with the pump and that is straining the motor too much. Reading that the pump is working outside manufacturer's recommendations would be classified as "something wrong." Or there could be too much resistance due to something broken.

You aren't the first to try this. I assume the reason the motor is missing is because the previous owner burned up the motor as well.

There could be other problems with the generated electricity, besides the voltage or amperage. Inverters don't always work as well as advertised.

Whole books have been written about motors and electricity. You can Google for most of them.

I was interested in offering my opinion but from what I can see if it is not what you want to hear it will be outright and critically rejected.............so forget it!
There are many experienced folks here who for no reward offer opinions and advice who we will not allow to be abused.

I would respectfully suggest you either zip up your attitude or go somewhere else.

The reason the manufacturer will not help is that they do not deal with the general public. They offer service through Authorized Service/Distributors only. And like I stated previously, they referred us to one of their service agents who wants to replace the pumpjack with a solar submersible pump, shelf life around 7 years.

Cost analysis:
replacement = $3000+ not including labor, or stripping the well w/ 7 year shelf life
vs
motor = $300 maybe w/ 50 year shelf life

It is not in their best interest to sell me a motor, they stand to gain more profit from the retro replacement than motor replacement.

I understand the basics behind motors; I.E. amp draw, HP, voltage, wiring, rotation, etc ....

Gennys:

100 KW MQ Power WhisperWatt mobile diesel
Honda EU2000i
both are quite capable of running AC motors.

I've burnt up 1/3 hp, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 HP ... all with variable rpms, rotations and voltages. Purchased through Grainger on my business account.

We have had this pumpjack running for several hours under AC motor power, until the motors burnt. And as stated before, we have pumped water by hand cranking this pumpjack as well as under motor power.

I was interested in offering my opinion but from what I can see if it is not what you want to hear it will be outright and critically rejected.............so forget it!
There are many experienced folks here who for no reward offer opinions and advice who we will not allow to be abused.

I would respectfully suggest you either zip up your attitude or go somewhere else.

Hey GregH,

Point taken. But please re-read my original post, the response received and my response. Can you see the sarcasm in the response I received to my post?

Part of being a Moderator is being Impartial, Fair and Balanced.

Thanks,
AnthonyH

You can get a very good idea what is going on by using a good quality clamp on ammeter and if it is capable of measuring frequency it would help a lot with your generators.

First you should check the voltage and frequency at the motor while it is running under full load to make sure this is right.
Then compare the running amperage under full load with the name plate amperage.

These tests should tell you that if the motor is getting full voltage and frequency but running at too high an amperage the motor is too small.

Have you asked these people (http://store.solar-electric.com/sun-pumps.html) what they use in their solar refit kit for jack pumps?

Their manual doesn't offer any clues.
http://www.sunpumps.com/UploadDocs/UserManuals/SJDB%20Jack%20Pump1.pdf

Cal them up and ask them what is included in their kit?

This installation uses a 2HP pump for 275 feet.
Solar Water Pumping Systems - Four Daughters Ranch - Direct Power & Water (http://www.directpower.com/ces/swps/ladder.html)

Have you asked these people (http://store.solar-electric.com/sun-pumps.html) what they use in their solar refit kit for jack pumps?

Their manual doesn't offer any clues.
http://www.sunpumps.com/UploadDocs/UserManuals/SJDB%20Jack%20Pump1.pdf

Cal them up and ask them what is included in their kit?

Yup, got that manual several months ago ...

Already called and spoke to SunPumps ....
They do not provide that info for obvious reasons ... I tried ...

They also do NOT provide service, referring me to another company that does service for their products ... which referred me back to SunPumps ... UGH one big ass run around ... jump this hoop jump that hoop jump this hoop jump that hoop ... give me a break ...

I added to my post. Solar Water Pumping Systems - Four Daughters Ranch - Direct Power & Water (http://www.directpower.com/ces/swps/ladder.html)

But that may be for the other pump, not the solar jack.
27 panels might give you a clue though that you aren't playing with low power. That's a lot of panels for a water pump.

You really might want to consider buying that kit and letting them figure all this stuff out.

I added to my post. Solar Water Pumping Systems - Four Daughters Ranch - Direct Power & Water (http://www.directpower.com/ces/swps/ladder.html)

You really might want to consider buying that kit and letting them figure all this stuff out.

Thanks Vey, :)

But again, here we go:

Cost analysis:
replacement equipment = $3000+
not including labor
or stripping the well
w/ 7 (+/-) year shelf life

vs

motor = $300 maybe w/ 50 year shelf life

not really where MOST people should WASTE their money in this economic fiasco we are in?

Wells here in Arizona are VERY, VERY expensive. Thank Arizona water politics for that. We pay 10 - 20X the cost of a well compared to the rest of the nation.

"$3000 and 7 years"
Apples and Oranges.

I'm talking about the kit to convert your beam balance pump, not a submersible. Although, I wonder if a submersible might not be the most practcal way to go.

You know what gearing you need? The size of the pulleys?

If you do, then use this other isntallation as your guide.

27 panels at 75 watts each = 2025 watts of power.
There will be losses, so let's say 1800 watts. What DC motor runs on 1800 watts at what? 48 volts? Figure that out and there is your answer.

Better yet, if I had the rpm/hp data everything else would be cake ... as the system could be designed around that info, as it should be ... but alas, I do not have that info and finding it is proving out to be like pulling teeth from a rhino ... :wall:

I would imagine that the gearing ratio speed engineering data is different for each installation depending on which pump is used and how deep the water is.

Since you are using a pump designed to pull water 25 feet or less, things would be different.

1800 watts/48 Volts = 37.5 AMPS. That's a very large motor.

At 36 Volts it comes to 50 AMPs.

Very expensive motors at that size. Golf Cart motors?

I guess getting back to your original question, it appears that motor specs are not readily available for your pump.
Also, even though a company recommended it, solar power for a well like this may not be practical or affordable.

I think you were on the right track with the motors you installed.
If you were able to get a motor to run for a few hours before burning up you could perhaps double the hp rating of the biggest one you tried as a place to start.
Compared to the alternative the cost of a good quality 2 hp motor is not that high.
Also, the cost of a clamp on ammeter is also not that much.

If you were to install a 2 hp motor using an educated guess as to what size motor pulley to use an ammeter will quickly thelp you select the correct pulley to ensure the motor will last "forever".

You didn't say what kind of motor you used but not all motors are created equally.
You should use a 1750 rpm industrial motor.
This type of motor is more costly that a 3600 rpm motor but these faster motors are considered light duty and for short term power tool use.

Here is what you need.
It only draws 8.1 amps at 208 volts which your gen should have no trouble providing:

Click image:
http://www.baldor.com/images/products/sm_images/1ph_tefc.jpg (http://www.baldor.com/products/detail.asp?1=1&page=4&catalogonly=1&catalog=L3516TM&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose|vw_ACMotors_GeneralPurpose&hp=2&winding=35WGW226&rating=40CMB-CONT)
Image courtesy of baldor.com