Wells, Sump Pumps and Septic Sewage Systems - Square D Pumptrol Sparking?!
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kawiski
09-28-09, 02:46 PM
I live in a rural area with under the ground pump feeds into my 500-gal water tank. From there, the the above ground pump (and air bladder tank) pressurizes the water to feed into the house.
I have 9013FSG Square D that is about a 1.5 year old. Actually the above ground pump and underground well pump were replaced as well at the same time with the Squre D Pumptrol. Lately I noticed that it is not cutting out at once but it takes 4-5 times of turning off/on repeatedly then it shuts off the pump when set pressure is reached. Cutting in is set at 30 and cutting out is set at 50 psi. There is no problem cutting in (pump on). Only cutting out (pump off) is not done at once but takes lots of on/off contacts and sparks which I witness when the cover was off. When I looked inside the Square D cover, it was all black meaning the sparking has been going on for a while. I don't want to throw in a new Square D and have the same problem. Also, I noticed that the above ground pump would not cut in and I had to manually activate the pump by holding up the lever on the side of the Square D. This happesn mostly when there is a heavy usage. Maybe these 2 issues are related. Can anyone help?
Here is my setup.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll262/kawiski1962/PumpControl006.jpg
Square D cover burnt inside.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll262/kawiski1962/PumpControl010.jpg
I have 9013FSG Square D that is about a 1.5 year old. Actually the above ground pump and underground well pump were replaced as well at the same time with the Squre D Pumptrol. Lately I noticed that it is not cutting out at once but it takes 4-5 times of turning off/on repeatedly then it shuts off the pump when set pressure is reached. Cutting in is set at 30 and cutting out is set at 50 psi. There is no problem cutting in (pump on). Only cutting out (pump off) is not done at once but takes lots of on/off contacts and sparks which I witness when the cover was off. When I looked inside the Square D cover, it was all black meaning the sparking has been going on for a while. I don't want to throw in a new Square D and have the same problem. Also, I noticed that the above ground pump would not cut in and I had to manually activate the pump by holding up the lever on the side of the Square D. This happesn mostly when there is a heavy usage. Maybe these 2 issues are related. Can anyone help?
Here is my setup.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll262/kawiski1962/PumpControl006.jpg
Square D cover burnt inside.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll262/kawiski1962/PumpControl010.jpg
Vey
09-28-09, 03:48 PM
"but takes lots of on/off contacts and sparks which I witness when the cover was off."
Not sure what is causing it, but is is called "chatter." And you say it is chattering when it is turning the pump off.
Chatter usually happens when the switch is turning the pump on.
Also, does it seem odd to anyone else that the pressure switch is flat up against the pump?
Not sure what is causing it, but is is called "chatter." And you say it is chattering when it is turning the pump off.
Chatter usually happens when the switch is turning the pump on.
Also, does it seem odd to anyone else that the pressure switch is flat up against the pump?
waterwelldude
09-28-09, 06:22 PM
Make sure you have the right amount of air in the tank.
With all the water drained out, use a tire gauge to check the pressure in the bladder.
If you have a 30/50 switch, there should be 28psi when you check the bladder pressure.
I think your problem is at the tank.
I have the same setup at our shop. The switch is mounted right at the pump just like the one you have.
One more thing to check is the little tube going to the switch. Take it off the switch and the pump, just to make sure it is clear of any kind of build up.
Travis
With all the water drained out, use a tire gauge to check the pressure in the bladder.
If you have a 30/50 switch, there should be 28psi when you check the bladder pressure.
I think your problem is at the tank.
I have the same setup at our shop. The switch is mounted right at the pump just like the one you have.
One more thing to check is the little tube going to the switch. Take it off the switch and the pump, just to make sure it is clear of any kind of build up.
Travis
kawiski
09-28-09, 06:39 PM
Update:
I called Saquare D corporate office and they had a technical support hotline which normally only talks to distribution company/store folks. Well, they offered to have a chat with me even though I am an end-user.
Here is summary:
> Chattering (On/Off repeatedly) is very odd when switch is trying to cut out (power off to the pump). This is more likely to happen during cut in (power on to the pump).
> Vibration can be a cause. Make sure the switch assembly is tightly bolted to the pump.
> Air bladder pressure tank might have worn out membrane liner and/or not set correctly. Make sure the empty tank (no water) air pressure is 2 psi lower than the cut-in pressure (power on to the pump) which is 30 psi on my setup. So, the air pressure in the tank should be 28 psi
I will check above and two items, plus I will check the black tubing in my photo that connects between the pump and the switch to make sure nothing is blocking as suggesgted. Thanks. But if you have any other input, please post!
I called Saquare D corporate office and they had a technical support hotline which normally only talks to distribution company/store folks. Well, they offered to have a chat with me even though I am an end-user.
Here is summary:
> Chattering (On/Off repeatedly) is very odd when switch is trying to cut out (power off to the pump). This is more likely to happen during cut in (power on to the pump).
> Vibration can be a cause. Make sure the switch assembly is tightly bolted to the pump.
> Air bladder pressure tank might have worn out membrane liner and/or not set correctly. Make sure the empty tank (no water) air pressure is 2 psi lower than the cut-in pressure (power on to the pump) which is 30 psi on my setup. So, the air pressure in the tank should be 28 psi
I will check above and two items, plus I will check the black tubing in my photo that connects between the pump and the switch to make sure nothing is blocking as suggesgted. Thanks. But if you have any other input, please post!
gunrunnerjohn
10-07-09, 08:26 AM
Any chance the motor capacitor is failing? That's normally mounted in the box that feeds power to the pump.
h2o4u
10-08-09, 07:10 PM
Square D said this?
Chattering (On/Off repeatedly) is very odd when switch is trying to cut out (power off to the pump). This is more likely to happen during cut in (power on to the pump). :eek::wall:
Shakes head, it is a waterlogged tank. :thumbup:
The low pressure cutoff switch will kick out during a rapid cycle so yes the two are related.
From the picture that's a Gould J series pump, has as AO Smith motor on it, the cap is inside the compartment at the back of the motor (right next to the pressure switch), but it's not that, if it were a cap problem the motor would be slow to start (rare) or just wouldn't start (most common).
Chattering (On/Off repeatedly) is very odd when switch is trying to cut out (power off to the pump). This is more likely to happen during cut in (power on to the pump). :eek::wall:
Shakes head, it is a waterlogged tank. :thumbup:
The low pressure cutoff switch will kick out during a rapid cycle so yes the two are related.
From the picture that's a Gould J series pump, has as AO Smith motor on it, the cap is inside the compartment at the back of the motor (right next to the pressure switch), but it's not that, if it were a cap problem the motor would be slow to start (rare) or just wouldn't start (most common).
shane21
10-15-09, 06:34 PM
H2o4u said it best, it is without a doubt a waterlogged tank or a blockage of the line going into the tank (very rare). I actually just changed a M-4 switch today that was the result of the EXACT same thing. Add the correct amount of air to the pressure tank and the problem will be solved until it leaks out again or until the carbon buildup on the switch points interrupts the power. I'd suggest adding air to the tank, changing the switch and monitoring the air in the tank every 3 months until you can determine how fast it's leaking out.
gunrunnerjohn
10-16-09, 06:49 AM
FWIW, the pressure switch should only set you back around $20, so I'd certainly think about trying that first. That assumes you have drained the tank and found the air pressure is correct.
My pressure tank is 20 years old, and I've gone through three pressure switches, however it still holds the pressure properly. I figure it's only a matter of time, certainly in the next few years, it'll eventually fail.
My pressure tank is 20 years old, and I've gone through three pressure switches, however it still holds the pressure properly. I figure it's only a matter of time, certainly in the next few years, it'll eventually fail.