Home Automation - X10 vs Insteon and related question

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toftat
09-14-09, 10:39 AM
I have a small X10 install at my home, (2 XPS3, 1 WS12A, 3 LM465, 3 RR501, 1 CM11A and a plug in phase coupler) and I am at the point where I need to buy more "stuff". I have some custom software on the computer controlling a lot of the lights, and this weekend I have noticed that there are significant reliability issues developing. Things that previously worked no longer do, strange turn on but not off effects are happening, and it's getting frustrating. I am trying to convince my SO that home automation is a Good Thing, but it's hard seeing that it is only half working. Having read around the subject a little, it appears that switching to insteon might be a solution. Will this cure my reliability issues? I think I will need to pull neutrals into the switch boxes, but I doubt that will be too difficult, as an aside, the house has _many_ GFCI outlets as there were little to no ground wire pulled when it was built in the early 40's. I would like some unbiased opinion, preferably based on experience before I got out spending a bunch more money. Of course Smarthome says "Yes, insteon is the way to go", X10 says "X10 is awesome and works well". I feel like the everything is a repeater paradigm will solve the reliability issue, but at the same time as a network engineer the flooding it could cause makes me cringe. Thanks for your time! Anthony


Rick Johnston
09-15-09, 02:49 PM
Has the X10 system worked reliably until recently? Did something change?

Since you're serious about home automation -- and being a network engineer -- you should consider a more robust system such as those made by AMX or Crestron. The controllers are expensive, but once you buy one it can expand. You can find late-model IP-based controllers and other parts used for pennies on the dollar.

toftat
09-15-09, 04:07 PM
The x10 system was running well, then as far as I can tell, without anything changing it ceased. The CM11A can receive the commands, from the powerline, but when it sends a command, it doesn't work. I have had cases in the past couple of months where RR501's spontaneously stopped working, then they would start again. I am seeing at the moment a case where the relay switch (XPS3 I think) will turn the load on, but not off again.

I know I can go through the house and filter some of the signal suckers (the GFI outlets are not filterable though) but my concern is that if I spend a bunch on filters, will things remain stable? Not withstanding, I will also need to continue buying the devices...

I am serious about doing it, but unfortunatly my budget does not run as far as the crestron equipment :(


furd
09-16-09, 02:10 PM
I've dabbled a bit with X-10 equipment and I might say it is fun but in no way would I consider it "awsome" OR reliable. X-10 is about the lowest rung of the home automation ladder in my opinion. Of course I also think that for the average person and the average home, home automation is more of a "Gee, lookit the keen neato things I can do with my home automation system." rather than of much practical usage.

Just my opinion. ;)

wendans
09-16-09, 08:39 PM
I have 20 dimmer switches in my house along with several lamp modules from insteon. I love them and what they can do. I have had only 2 switches go bad in 3 years and they have given me 100% reliability. I also installed 30 switches in another home and they have all worked flawlessly. The wireless remote option is still cool for me and people that get to use it. It is more expensive but has so much more to offer anymore than X10 it was worth it to me.

toftat
09-17-09, 09:57 AM
@furd
I am hoping to use HA for energy management as well as convenience. My software provides conditional macro expansion as well as being able to take input from various (non powerline) sources. PM me for more details, there are many more...

@wendans
Have you had signal strength issues? or has the Insteon network just accomodated everything you have needed?

wendans
09-17-09, 10:09 AM
I have had no signal strength issues. One of the houses is over 3600 sq.ft upstairs alone with only 2 signal lincs or whatever they are called. I just went brain dead on the name.

wendans
09-17-09, 01:36 PM
Duh, access points is what I was trying to say.

wendans
09-18-09, 08:42 AM
Also, yes you will have to pull neutrals. I had to have electricians do it because my wiring was so messed up. They even struggled with it but after 3 days the 3 electricians finished and I love it.

toftat
09-18-09, 09:25 AM
thanks Wendans I am hoping this house is old enough to have conduit so that I can use the existing switch loop as the pull cord to bring 14/3 romex through. I will start off only doing those I need to if there is no conduit then I am not sure how I am going to do it, there is no way I can staple the wires to the studs 8-10 inches from the switch box.

Unfortunatly I am currently fighting a rear guard action with my fiancee due to the X10 not working as well as it might :( I have convinced her to let me do one room and see how it goes.