Communications: Voice, Radio and Data - Phone Line Problem - No Dial Tone with New Line

I am trying to relocate a phone line to a new room in my house but the existing line isn't long enough. I purchased standard telephone line from Radio Shack (4 conductor - red, green, yellow and black lines) and spliced two of the lines (red and green) to the existing telephone line.

The problem is there is no dial tone at the end of the new line. I checked the polarity and I do have it correct and the dial tone is there when I hook up a phone to the end of the existing phone line. It is clearly something to do with the new line extension.

I checked voltages using multimeter and it is 50.4 volts at the end of the existing (working) line and 50.3 volts at the end of the new line extension. The new line extension is only an additional 10 feet - is this too long? Is there anything else I can check? I am thinking of just trying a fresh piece of line....

Welcome to the forums. It sounds like you've done everything correctly. Length isn't an issue.

When you pick up the phone on the extension do you hear yourself in the earpiece or is it completely dead? (Dead means the "battery" isn't powering the phone -- you have a problem in the wiring.) With the new phone connected do you get dial tone on any other phone in the house? (If not there is a problem with the wiring.)

How are you terminating these lines? Twisting wires together at the splice and connecting the new wires to a jack? (You are stripping off the insulation, right?) ScotchLoks or Dolphin B-Wire are the preferred connectors for telephone wiring. They don't require stripping the insulation.

Inside the modular jack & plug, the center two pins carry the signal. Make sure you're wiring green & red to the correct terminals on the back of the jack, and make sure the small wires from the screws to the jack are connected. Sometimes the jacks are wired with the "new" standard colors: Green to white-blue, and red to blue-white.

When you pick up the phone on the extension do you hear yourself in the earpiece or is it completely dead? (Dead means the "battery" isn't powering the phone -- you have a problem in the wiring.) With the new phone connected do you get dial tone on any other phone in the house? (If not there is a problem with the wiring.)

I hear a dial tone at the termination of the original line (and at any other connection in the house). At the end of the 10 ft line spliced to the original line there is no dial tone - the phone is dead. So I am sure it has to do with that 10 ft extension line (which is fresh off the spool so it's brand new!)

How are you terminating these lines? Twisting wires together at the splice and connecting the new wires to a jack? (You are stripping off the insulation, right?) ScotchLoks or Dolphin B-Wire are the preferred connectors for telephone wiring. They don't require stripping the insulation.

I tried the ScotchLoks first but when I got no dial tone I tried just twisting the wires together.

Inside the modular jack & plug, the center two pins carry the signal. Make sure you're wiring green & red to the correct terminals on the back of the jack, and make sure the small wires from the screws to the jack are connected. Sometimes the jacks are wired with the "new" standard colors: Green to white-blue, and red to blue-white.

Yeah - I am pretty sure I got the polarity correct but I did try reversing the polarity also just in case with no luck.

I think I am going to try a fresh length of wire since I think I have exhausted all logical possibilities with the existing wire. I am going to double check the 10 ft extension wire for any damage to the insulation - looked OK last time I checked it....

how is the extension wire terminated ?

do you have a plug crimped on it or does it go to a jack ?

how did you splice?

i never wire nut phone line together for splicing
but instead use a IDC ( insulated displacement connector )
same as phone companies guys use for splices
because the IDCs pierce the insulation jacket while making a good solid connection

sometime when you twist with a small wire but you end up snapping off the small solid wire, which is common

IDC are sold in HD in the data / phone section, they are made by Ideal and you simply use a line mans pliers to crimp them down

Ideal Connector, IDC Connector, Insulation Displacement Connector (IDC) & Kinetic Super Wire Stripper/Crimper (http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide10-02.html)

how did you splice?

i never wire nut phone line together for splicing
but instead use a IDC ( insulated displacement connector )
same as phone companies guys use for splices
because the IDCs pierce the insulation jacket while making a good solid connection

sometime when you twist with a small wire but you end up snapping off the small solid wire, which is common

IDC are sold in HD in the data / phone section, they are made by Ideal and you simply use a line mans pliers to crimp them down

Ideal Connector, IDC Connector, Insulation Displacement Connector (IDC) & Kinetic Super Wire Stripper/Crimper (http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide10-02.html)

Yeah, my splicing is manual - just twisting the wires together so that might be part of the problem. Do you know if Radio Shack sells IDC's? I don't feel like waiting for mail order....

I don't know about Radio Shack, but Home Depot and Lowe's sell them.

Twisting them together works fine for testing & troubleshooting as long as you don't break the copper. Use the more permanent method after you clear the problem. That way you're not wasting connectors.

So I spliced some old phone line I had laying around and I now get a dial tone! The brand new Radio Shack phone line was defective! I'm pissed off. I feel like taking back the remainder of the spool and demanding a refund - it was only $2.99 but it's still really a annoying to have wasted all that time.

I think the line must have had defective internal insulation - I may check it with my multimeter to see if there is crosstalk between the different conductors.

In any case, my problem is solved!

I believe it . 15 years in bussiness doing home repair I got many things that were bad from the git-go. Learned to suspect the part not the work after a double check of my work showed nothing obviously wrong.

Ive never run across bad cable I think it was a poor termination

Ive never run across bad cable I think it was a poor termination Actually I have. Was actually using it for a buzzer system in an apartment building.

Ive never run across bad cable I think it was a poor termination


Well, the terminations for both the current working wire and the one that didn't work were done identically so I don't think that was the cause.

I'll check the cable for an internal short with my multimeter and report back what I find since I think that was the most likely cause of my problem.

If I find one I am going to go back to the store and let them know about it. Maybe they will give me gift certificate for finding this out....

After supervising projects with literally millions of feet of various cables, I can agree with Mark's assessment. Especially since the cable was the cheapest junk on the planet.

Off-brand cables commonly have internal splices. Many cheepo resellers will buy end runs from legit manufacturers and splice them together to make 500- and 1000-foot bulk spools. I once found a paper-coated wire twist-tie inside the jacket of some 14/2 speaker cable. It appeared to be the reinforcement of a splice, and it caused a direct short in the middle of the run.

Mark, since the run is only ten feet you should be able to pull the conductors out of the jacket and visually inspect it (after you've done the meter readings).

I checked the wire with a multimeter and it looks as though the conductors are NOT short circuiting with each other so I don't know why it didn't work. The weird thing with this wire was that when I had it hooked up and didn't have a dial tone with it, I was still detecting 50 volts at the end of the wire which is the standard telephone line voltage (when not ringing). Maybe there's something else wrong that I missed? I don't know. The good thing is my other line extension now works and I have been getting 150 KB/sec transfer speeds through my DSL modem indicating a pretty noise free connection.Beer 4U2

After supervising projects with literally millions of feet of various cables, I can agree with Mark's assessment. Especially since the cable was the cheapest junk on the planet.

Off-brand cables commonly have internal splices. Many cheepo resellers will buy end runs from legit manufacturers and splice them together to make 500- and 1000-foot bulk spools. I once found a paper-coated wire twist-tie inside the jacket of some 14/2 speaker cable. It appeared to be the reinforcement of a splice, and it caused a direct short in the middle of the run.

Mark, since the run is only ten feet you should be able to pull the conductors out of the jacket and visually inspect it (after you've done the meter readings).

a partial open - bad splice - on one conductor will allow you to read voltage on a high-impedance volt meter since the meter presents no current load. as soon as you load it up, no voltage. with -48vdc loop [telco standard], a typical telephone will drop the voltage to approx 10vdc, meaning that the phone is drawing a few hundred milli-amps or so... too much current for the bad splice. to really check this out, hook up the bad wire, check for 48 vdc unloaded, then connect the phone and see what the voltage is on-hook and off-hook. compare this to a normally good extension. i now work on hvac and have the same problems with thermostats and controls. loose screws are discovered during the replacement of suspected bad parts.... good luck - watch out for ringing voltage - stings but won't do any permanent damage... and yes, i have seen my share of defective cable.

Polarity usually isn't an issue anymore on regular phone lines or POTS lines for "Plain Old Telephone Service". Most equipment now has polarity guards built in. I have known Radio Shack to sell the stranded cable that is used to make station cords or the cord from the phone to the jack for running extra jacks. While not impossible to use, it is hard
to make good clean connection to jacks or to solid wire.
I have saw a lot of problems when this is used. Where I have worked for the last 32 years, we always used 24 gauge solid
copper. The 3M trademark "ScotchLoks" always worked well
when connecting solid copper wires together.
If your other phones in your house continue to work while
only one or two phones are out, then it is more likely an open circuit instead of a shorted circuit which would put out all phones in the house.