Wells, Sump Pumps and Septic Sewage Systems - Shallow well not producing.

Hello all,

I just attempted at jetting down a well point using the brady method with the kit sold at lowes, however my well is producing very little water. About 1 gallon a minute or so.

I'm going to describe some things I noticed, maybe someone here knows what I've got myself into...

I used 2 Brady well points stacked, 20 feet deep.

Now here is where I am a bit confused, I keep hearing from people that the hard pan in where I'm located at (Pinellas Co, Florida) is about 2-10 inchs thick, however when drilling mine I never really felt like I got through the hard pan. I was told that after i get the 2 inch pipe through the hard pan that it should be nothing but white and yellow sand. I ended up never really getting much sand, mostly just small pieces of blueish colored bits of rock and black bits of dirt. The water being washed up did have a white color to it though, some sand but most of it very-very fine. I managed to get my 3/4 inch pipe down to about 24feet but it would not go any farther, i simply could not get it to move beyond that point.

Once I got the points placed I forcefully back washed the points as it says to do in the brady manual, the well takes water from a water hose if you force it down, but it drinks very very slowly if you don't force it. the water level in the pipe goes down maybe 2 inch a minute, till it reach's the standing water level about 5 feet down the pipe.

The water the well produces is has some small pieces of sand, and in a 5 gallon bucket appears to be a slightly white color to it. the water smells perfect, does not have the sulfur smell most here do.

Another thing I noticed is that the 3/4 inch pipe i had be using to wash the 2 inch pipe down with, had almost what appeared to be clay stuck all over it, it was sort of blueish.

With all this being said, does it sound like I need to have a professional well driller go deeper with a machine? Do these ground conditions seem normal? any input from someone who has washed down a shallow well would be appreciated.

It's for irrigation so I don't care about quality, just need a decently producing well (hopefully at-least 8-15gpm)

From what you have said, it sounds like you have not reached the water table yet. Have you checked with your Conservation Dept and found out what the water table really is. Now, another thing. If you are down 24 feet, and only a little water, you may need a submersible pump to lift it up.
You might contact a well driller and get his opinion. Good Luck

>i simply could not get it to move beyond that point.<

That was the hard pan. You need sharp points, patience and time to get through it. Pull up what you have, and go down again. This time, don't give up. Twist the 3/4" back and forth keep bouncing on it and it may take a few hours. Maybe more than a few hours to get through it.

Vey,

I thought I had hit the hard pan at 8 feet when the drilling became difficult, but it never really went easy after that, so I guess the hardpan is down further than I thought....

I do agree though, looking back at myself I should have had a bit more patience, but mucking around in the mud trying to drill down its pretty easy to get pissed off.

Vey,

I thought I had hit the hard pan at 8 feet when the drilling became difficult, but it never really went easy after that, so I guess the hardpan is down further than I thought....

I do agree though, looking back at myself I should have had a bit more patience, but mucking around in the mud trying to drill down its pretty easy to get pissed off.

I use a 14" pipe wrench on the 2" pipe to twist the pipe down after 8 feet or so when friction gets stiff.

Mucking around in the mud is no fun, but it beats pounding.

Got back at it today.. Pulled the points and started back in putting down my 2 inch.

Finnaly hit about 4 feet of sand at 26 feet. After that I hit another hard surface.. not really sure if its clay or hardpan, the water being washed up has a sort of yellow/white color to it. Sure is hard though, had to recut the chissle in my 3/4 inch pipe twice, nearly completly dulled it. Guess ill try to get through it tommorw, should be fun trying to get the 2 inch pipe thought that...

Not really sure how accurate it would be to test the well to see if it drinks water, we had lots of rain and the water level is about a foot from ground level...

Would it be adviseable to continue to try to go deeper, or put the points where I got the yellow sand?

You gave both hoses going? Then unscrew the 3/4" and try to fill up the well. If the water backs up in less than 2-3 minutes, then you are not in the right place. Basically, what can go down is pretty much what will come up, like a lung.

It could be that you may have to stop if you can't get through. If so, then look in the back of the booklet and you will see how to make a field.

Somewhere in there is has a formula of what to expect and I think it says something like 2-3 gallons per minute per foot of screen?

Vey, thank you for taking the time to help me out.

I went at it again this morning the well takes water decently, it will take 5 gallons of water and not spill over, but if I put the hose on it, it takes about 30 seconds to spill over. (I'm using a heavy duty hose, and we have insanely high waterpressure here.)

So I cut my 3/4 to have a chissle on it, went at it again, and lo and behold after 10 minutes it was nearly completly flattened out again. given this is nearly 32 feet down, I decided I wasnt going to make it any farther without having something drilled.

So I decided to go ahead and try to stick my point down it and hook up the well to see what I got. Primed almost instantly, and had good pressure @ about 6.5GPM. I was getting some air bubbles, but I expected that, as my points are not all the way down, and my 2 inch pipe is still in the ground.

So I'm going to get the points as far down as I can and then pull the 2 inch pipe. I hope to get the points to atleast 32 feet. I think I should get sufficent water then.

Now what I'm thinking about, is maybe I don't need 6 feet of well point (only a 1/2HP sta-rite) and as I dont want half my point in the water, maybe I'll cut off a foot or just use 1 point. and then about 10 feet over put the other one at the same depth, with pump in the middle.

Dont mean to ramble on... anyways, thanks Vey.

It's really going to depend on how fast the water comes out. At 6.5 GPM, four feet should be fine. On the one hand, you haven't developed this well very much, which you need to do. On the other hand a drought could come along, drop the water level and all you will get is air.

So I would cut the screen down to 4 feet. Then start developing. I like to use air to develop.

Well it looks like its producing much better now.

I ended up getting the bottom of the points about 29ish feet down, with 5 feet of point.

I'm getting 7gpm now. It's less than I was hoping to get but I just use a waterhose and two rainbird sprinklers so I'm satisfied with that now.. I guess I can't expect that much more out of a half house pump.

I did devolope it with air and water - I used my aircompressor to surge the water and then ran some water down them, and repeated.

I've been running it since about 8PM and its now 11PM and the water is running clear, no air, and surprisingly does not smell bad.

One last question, I put a check vavle on the suction side as close to the pump as I could get it, but my pump still loses prime. I'm pretty much 99% sure I don't have any leaks, but I was told at home depot that you need to use a pressure tank with a bladder to stop the pump from quickcycling and to make the checkvalve work. is this true? I bought a PVC check valve, on second thought I probably should have spent a couple more dollars for the brass one, hopefully it just needs a tank and the valve isnt bad.

"I'm pretty much 99% sure I don't have any leaks, but I was told at home depot that you need to use a pressure tank with a bladder to stop the pump from quickcycling and to make the checkvalve work. is this true?"

What quick cycling? If you don't have a tank, then you don't have a cycle -- all you have is on and off. If you use hoses, don't turn them all off because you will build up too much pressure and blow the pump seal.

If you are losing prime, you either have a leak or the cheap plastic check valve is leaking. I have seen bad check valves right out of the box. Take it back, say it is leaking and get a brass one.

But if you have a leaking pipe on the suction pipe, that is harder to detect. Use shaving cream and take your time. Lay a thick smooth layer (I use Barbasol, but Noxema works, too) of shaving cream all the way around a joint -- do one at a time -- and watch carefully. Swivel your head all the way around to watch the bottom and sides. Watch for at least five minutes.

What you are looking for is a pinhole or a dimple. This is tedious and hard to do because you have to memorize what the layer looks for and look for a slight change.

Then do that to each joint. Threaded plastic is famous for leaking.

I found the leak doing what you described, and surprise surprise it was at the check valve, so I took that off and returned it for a brass one, replumbed it in and everything works fine now (I do have a pressure switch on my pump). It holds a prime now.

But now I am having some more problems, pressure is fine after it builds up, water is clear but the well is only producing 4gpm now. Water is crystal clear, does not smell bad but the drawdown is large. standing water is 6 feet down, after the pump has ran its down to 17 feet down (checked via T on suction side) and does not reach 6 feet again till atleast 10 minutes. I imagin that when the pump turns on, its even farther down. So I guess the reduction to 4gpm could be the pump curv because of the drawdown depth.

I'm really thinking hard about just having a well drilled, or atleast finding something that can make it past that hardpan at 30 feet. I know PVC is not going to do it.. It's crazy because plenty of people around me have shallow wells with sandpoints, some with 2HP volume pumps pumping out some silly ammounts of water, but I've appeared to hit mostly clay with little sand, guess thats one of the pitfalls of shallow wells..

Wait, wait. Didn't you read the last few pages of the Brady book? Where they talk about creating a field of wells?

If you want to pay someone to drill, I won't try to stop you, but for irrigation, surface water should do fine. You don't need that pressure switch -- it only complicates things.

In my yard, things are very different only 40 feet away. In one place 10 foot thick hardpan and 40 feet away, almost none. That's why neighbors are different. Could be different for you, too.

I did read the part about well fields, and placed my pump accordingly so I could put a field if need be.

My thoughts are yes, I could add another point, but the fact is its been quiet rainy lately and the draw down depth is already quite large when the ground is wet, what will happen in the summer when I need to use the well and the ground is dry?

Basically I don't want to continue wasting my time if I cant produce a viable shallow well.

I have been mulling over the idea of giving it a try in a different part of the yard, but I imagined that the underground geology would stay the same over a large area, but now that you say it changes in little as 40 feet, and the fact that I know there are plenty of viable shallow wells in my area, I may give it another shot in a different location.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Figured I would update encase anyone ever ran into problems like I have..

I spent some more time devoloping it after it went down to 3GPM production. This time I used a heavy duty 3/4 inch hose and forced water down the point at a rate of about 20GPM. I did it for about 5 minutes, then switched over to air and forced the water (and some very very fine sand particles out) and repeated for about an hour and a half. Now I'm back to 6GPM with the 1 point. So I've came to the conclusion that I did not spend enough time devoloping it.

Furthmore after speaking with an aqquatience who put in his shallow well, he said he put 6 points for a 1-1/2HP pump, so clearly I need 2 or more points. He also said the reason I get air bubbles is because I'm overpumping the one point.

So I think I'm going to do a 4 point manifold, that way I have room for upgrading to a bigger pump if need be, and no overpumping of my points...

I definitly learned when doing this....Have patience, and then some more patience, it's slow, but beats the 25$ a foot to have a well drilled..