Walls and Ceilings - HELP! Getting taken for a ride by contractor

:madhell:

So I had a contractor come in to knock out a small load bearing wall in our house. The job went bad towards the end and now he is coming back with material costs far beyond what he originally had quoted me. He is saying 1000-1500 for materials but will have a final number for me today. I wanted to check in with you guys and see what is reasonable for this type of job so that I'm armed with a realistic number as counter-argument.

He used existing trim from the wall that he took out and did not buy paint. Also, the floors were fixed by a 3rd party so this was not part of his material expenses either. Really, his only costs were a small beam, 2 posts, a 2x4, some drywall/mudd and misc. hardware. What's a reasonable price for all this? I know it shouldn't be in the range that he gave last night. Pictures of the wall in progress below..

Thanks for any help!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2433/3746663431_52fb68533a.jpg

I always itemized materials on my bills and had receipts available to show the customer my cost for materials. If a customer asked I would even explain where each item was used. I always considered it polite and good business practice. Talk to your contractor and see if he his willing to break the cost down. Frankly sometimes a customer may not realize how quickly things add up if they don't see the math.

I'll admit a thousand extra in materials seems high but with out more detail it is hard to say. If he isn't willing to break it down and just seems to be pulling a total out of the air I'd insist on a breakdown.

Thanks Ray,
I am definitely going to prod for an itemized list, however wanted to check with some impartial professionals before taking a hard lined stance on this.

Just to give a little background this was supposed to be a friendly deal and he's over my budget with materials alone (after promising several times throughout the process he'd keep it under my max for all components of the project).

He also missed his deadline by over 2 weeks and didn't finish the job, leaving the thermostat and all power in the wall disconnected for me to deal with. He went off the radar for about a month and is now asking for payment. Just trying to get a gauge on what's fair so I can demand the right level of accountability to be taken on his end.

Thanks!

Mike

I wouldn't even discuss it item by item. That's going to make the conversation a lot longer than you want it to be. What's your offer for the total job? $2,000? Whatever the agreement is, tell him that he can have half now & the rest when it's done.

Has he finished, yet? Can you send a similar pix showing it finished so we can compare. I agree materials are tricky and add up quickly, but unless that top beam is gold plated, I can't see where there is that much money in materials. Labor is another part.
Don't make final payment until it is finished and all materials and labor are accounted for.

It's as done as it's going to get. To clarify that number is for MATERIALS ONLY, which is why I'm balking at it. I've been to Lowes and even there a beam, some posts, a 2x4, 2 sheets of drywall and some hardware does not come anywhere near $1500. I know contractors mark stuff up, but a 300% markup is not going to fly with me. Just trying to get an idea of what average cost would be for materials on this type of job backed by some individuals with experience so my bickering will have more credibility.

Thanks!

I know contractors mark stuff up, but a 300% markup is not going to fly with me. Crap, that's why I went bankrupt. I was charging actual cost and rounding down to the nearest dollar.:wall:

ray....my wife always rounds down when she tells me how much something she wants costs. $469.99 = $400 in her mind...I guess because it begins with a 4 and has 2 more numbers before the decimal point?

Ya, my wife always sees the first #. We bought some land to set her trailer on shortly after we got married. She said the price was $16k, imagine the shock when I found out it was really $19,900 :eek:

I rarely ever itemized material costs but the majority of my work was for a set price. If it cost me more because I misfigured :wall::eek::wall: I took the loss but if more work only became evident after it was started - we renegotiated then.

I assume there wasn't a contract? or even a written estimate? I'm with Ray, if I charged seperately for materials - it was the cost of the materials and maybe a little to cover my time to get them. Remind him of your original agreement and make him prove why it should be more.

Who furnished the lumber for the temporary support to hold up the ceilings until the beam was up? Who furnished the material to protect the floor? Who furnished the material to tent off the work area from the rest of the house?
If there was more material than shows in the picture and you paid for it you should own it. Do you want it? Can he reuse it?
What is he misc, hardware you mention?

What is his labor?
How much time did he spend on the job?
How much running around did he have to to do line up the materials?
How did the job go bad?
What is the total bill?

One of the best ways to make an enemy is to devalue a man's worth.

Find something good to say about the man or the work and we might feel less like you are trying to take a tradesman to the cleaners.

Tightcoat,
I'm not going to sit here and give a rave review to the window licker who is trying to take ME to the cleaner's. I'll bet that if you went into a restaurant, ordered a burger for $10, you'd be pretty upset if the chef came out half way through eating it and demand $18 instead. This would of course be after he decided not to include the fries, even though those were on the menu with the burger.

I'm not devaluing anyone here, but when you PROMISE me something multiple times throughout the course of a working relationship, then that is what you are giving me. I work in a trade too that requires efficient estimation and time management, however If a job goes longer or becomes more expensive than it should because of misestimation, guess who is eating those costs? ME. That is the honorable way to do things.

Once again the labor costs are a moot point here. This post is about material alone so let's focus on the matter at hand. As stated earlier in my post, the floor was handled by someone else, I was painting the wall, and the house was empty when he started so no time/material was needed to seal anything off. I even prepped the area for him ahead of time, but this is besides the point.

If he wanted the flexibility of a variable cost estimate he should have used a contract stating such, or at the very least met his deadlines and performed the duties he was hired to do with diligence. I'm a fair person and totally cool paying a fair price as I understand that people's trade skills are valuable, but only when I get what is promised to me. Can't deliver? Don't tell me otherwise - simple as that! If he would have honored his original milestones and deliverables and got things done on time, I would have no problem meeting in the middle, however this is a case of sheer dishonesty.

Anyways just spoke with him and all is resolved. After basically calling him out for breaking his promises and pulling a switch on me, he has reneged on his latter stance and is honoring his original estimate.

The sad part is that I had two friends lined up with major projects waiting to see how this turned out. Had he put in a little extra effort, communicate properly and not try to dick me around at the end, he would have been very busy for the next several months. Word of mouth goes a long way guys. I don't think asking that promises be fulfilled is out of line - Hell! Can't do it? Then at least have the decency to communicate with your client–It's just the professional way to run a business.

Thanks for your input everyone! Definitely going to be doing as much as I can on my own from here on out..

I'm glad the guy finally came to his senses. It's happened to me before & I had to take the loss. Sometimes things go sour & customers are lost. I don't think he's worried about the 2 possible jobs in the future. As one boss I had told his customers, tomorrow's promises don't pay today's bills.