Residential & Commercial Security - Locks, Keys & Dead Bolts - Removing/Replacing old locking knob with no screws

Bought a house built in 1950. The front door has a single knob with no markings. It has a lock, but it looks like it has been damaged/altered so that it is permanantly locked. When opened from the inside, the knob unlocks. However, from the outside, it is always locked, and the key is long gone.

How would I go about getting this knob off? I don't see any screws anywhere or markings of any kind.

Also, it looks like the knob is further from the door frame than the standard 2-3/4 inches. I haven't measured it yet, but it could be 3-1/2 inches to 4 inches. I want to replace it with a dummy knob or handleset, and add a deadbolt above it.

Do they make knob latches that will span that distance?

I went back and looked at lunch and the hole center is drilled 5" from the edge, and there is a small hole near the base of the knob that looks like a spot for a tiny, tiny key.

Any help?

A 5" backset is still available with Schlage & other makes, tho it may be special order....You may want to get a "Passage" function, which will allow latching the door but no locking--a
"Dummy" knob has no latch; it's just a handle. The retainer for the inner knob may be thru a small round hole in the spindle housing, or a thin slot, as well-- both types require a poke tool.

Thanks. Assuming I can get the knob off without damaging the latchbolt, would that latchbolt be compatible with modern knobs? Modern handlesets? In other words, could I just take off the old knob and put on a new one?

Gotta know the brand, and group within the brand we're talking about. The interconnection between latch tube and lock chassis was not as standardized in 1950 as it is today, so your chance of buying a Home Depot replacement lock and expecting it to work with your latch is pretty slim. A couple of close-up pics of the latch, esp. with the chassis removed from the door would be helpful. Even a pic of the lock on the door might identify it to GlobalLocky or me.

I plan on getting a Kwikset Smartkey handleset.

Here are some pics. I see Schlage on the mortise, but I guess that could be a replacement part and the guts may not necessarily be Schlage. However, that might be a pretty good bet.

Picture 011 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19529653@N00/3843338052/)

Picture 013 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19529653@N00/3842549537/in/photostream/)

Picture 014 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19529653@N00/3843339358/?rotated=1&cb=1250876905933)

Picture 016 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19529653@N00/3843339854/in/photostream/)

Picture 017 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/19529653@N00/3842551015/in/photostream/)

Good pics. I'm 99% sure that's a Schlage "A" series, very popular for residences back then. Your original complaint about not being able to leave the outside knob unlocked, is assumming you've tried to turn the inner thumbturn & it won't turn. I see signs of corrosion where the t-turn comes thru the knob so it might be corroded to the knob. Put a little Liquid Wrench or similar penetrant on there and let it set a bit, then try gently with a pair of pliers to push in and turn it CCW. (BTW, that is the poke hole to release the inner knob, which may further facilitate freeing up the t-turn.)

Thanks. What kind of tool do I need for that poke hole?

If you still can't get it working, and taking the lock to a smithy is inconvenient so you still want to replace it with a shiny new lock, #1:If you want to use a Kwiikset handleset, you'll have to make sure (since I don't recall offhand) that a 5" backset latch can be ordered and #2, that the lock itself is designed to go in a 2-1/8" dia cylindrical lock hole.
If the existing latch is in good repair you might opt to get a new Schlage "A" or "AL" series as it will engage the existing latch. Also, once you remove the main lock chassis from the door, and if you can remove the latch without too much trouble, you can use the old extension piece with the new latch. (make sure both latch pieces are same backset)
Now about that 1% chance it's not an "A" series, but a "D" series (heavy duty commercial, latch not compatible with "A" series) rarely used on houses, but they look almost the same from the outside as the "A" series: Once the existing lock is removed, take a pic thru the hole in the door where the latch tube protudes into the hole, that'll tell us fer sure. Got all that?

A small allen wrench is hardened and won't bend as easy as a paperclip, but if the knob hasn't been removed in 60 yrs, you may have to work at it a bit.

If you still can't get it working, and taking the lock to a smithy is inconvenient so you still want to replace it with a shiny new lock, #1:If you want to use a Kwiikset handleset, you'll have to make sure (since I don't recall offhand) that a 5" backset latch can be ordered and #2, that the lock itself is designed to go in a 2-1/8" dia cylindrical lock hole.
If the existing latch is in good repair you might opt to get a new Schlage "A" or "AL" series as it will engage the existing latch. Also, once you remove the main lock chassis from the door, and if you can remove the latch without too much trouble, you can use the old extension piece with the new latch. (make sure both latch pieces are same backset)
Now about that 1% chance it's not an "A" series, but a "D" series (heavy duty commercial, latch not compatible with "A" series) rarely used on houses, but they look almost the same from the outside as the "A" series: Once the existing lock is removed, take a pic thru the hole in the door where the latch tube protudes into the hole, that'll tell us fer sure. Got all that?

Yes, I think I have all of that. Thanks!

So, if I understand you correctly, if I want to use the existing guts, but change the knob, the best bet would be a Schlange A or AL series? Chances are that a Kwikset knob would not work? But, if I wanted the Kwikset knob, I could change everything out as long as I could get a Kwikset 5" latch (I see them online)? The handset I am looking at has a 2-1/8 cross bore, so I think I am fine with the hole already there.

This is great info! Thanks for your help.

Looks like the Kwikset would work for you then, but don't commit till you've been able to get the existing lock off and can remove that star shaped rose without tearing up the door.
There's a small possibility you can leave the rose on if it's really stuck, but it'll prob'ly look bad with a new lock.(What about paint/stain under the rose? Uglier?)
Regarding your existing lock, "guts" could be misunderstood:
If you bought a new "cylindrical" lock and wanted to keep the existing latch, you would install the complete chassis assembly with roses and knobs, in the main hole & engage the old latch extension.
You'll prob'ly find you can use the shiny new latch (for 2-3/8 backset) and engage it to the old latch extension.

Regarding your existing lock, "guts" could be misunderstood:
If you bought a new "cylindrical" lock and wanted to keep the existing latch, you would install the complete chassis assembly with roses and knobs, in the main hole & engage the old latch extension.
You'll prob'ly find you can use the shiny new latch (for 2-3/8 backset) and engage it to the old latch extension.

Yes, this is what I want to do.

The only thing on the door now is this knob, and I want to add a deadbolt and replace this knob with a regular deadlatch.

If by "Deadlatch" you mean a non-locking function doorknob that will simply latch to hold the door shut, & use a separate deadbolt to lock it with, then the "A" (knob) or "AL"(lever) line in a "Passage" function (non-locking) is what you need.
Within that line are many finishes and designs to choose from.

If by "Deadlatch" you mean a non-locking function doorknob that will simply latch to hold the door shut, & use a separate deadbolt to lock it with, then the "A" (knob) or "AL"(lever) line in a "Passage" function (non-locking) is what you need.
Within that line are many finishes and designs to choose from.

Correct, I mean a nonlocking doorknob.

Thanks for all your help. I will let you know how my project evolves.

Kwikset 5" backset is a special order item (if they still even make them).

Personally I would be very weary of using Kwikset Smartkey technology. There are too many bypasses for it. Locks cannot be master keyed. A key cut to all 3 depths can be fiddled to open the lock, rather easily.

The cylinder is held in by two springs that can be manipulated easily to pull the cylinder without unlocking the handle.

there is a tool made to remove the outer knob, even when it is locked. It certainly makes the job really easy to open a locked door or remove the knob even in locked position. Once off, it can be repaired really easily.

After you remove the cylinder, drop it it a bucket of gasoline and leave it there for at least 3 hours. That will eat through the grime and then you can lube it up with teflon spray or silicone spray and re-key it to a new key or just replace with a new cylinder.

Many of the 5" backsets were simply an extension adaptor that connect to a standard backset.