Residential & Commercial Security - Locks, Keys & Dead Bolts - baldwin mortise lock problems

Hi,
I wanted to rekey the baldwin mortise lock on the front door. After few searches (useful links - mortise installation instructions (http://www.baldwinhardware.com/support/install_guides/mortise_installation_instructions.pdf), some yahoo answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070704090436AAPB2mD), expert answers (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/2008/10/removing-cylinder-baldwin-mortise.htm) ) I figured out how to take out the mortise lock. Took that out, changed the pins, re-keyed the lock and reinstalled everything.

Now I have couple of problems. (The lock wasn't very smooth to begin with, but I am not sure it had these issues)
1. When the inner thumbturn is used to extend the deadbolt, I can not use the key to turn the deadbolt. key can be only used if the deadbolt was extended by the key. Is this a safety feature on the mortise lock or do I have something sticking there?
2. Inner knob is sticky and if the latch sticks in a position other than fully extended, the key does not work. This must be a problem. How do I work with that? (The knob fits on a split square rod that turns the latch)

Thanks

Sounds to me that you put the lock back together incorrectly.

There was no need to remove the whole lock from the door just to rekey it.

Just loosen the retainer screw and unwind the cylinder.

The binding of the latch and inner knob indicate a false alignment.

The thumbturn was more than likely installed incorrectly if the cylinder doesnt work like supposed to.

Sounds to me that you put the lock back together incorrectly.
hmm, so how do I fix it now?

There was no need to remove the whole lock from the door just to rekey it.

Just loosen the retainer screw and unwind the cylinder.

loosening the retainer screw was not allowing me to unscrew the cylinder. so I tried to remove more pieces hoping that I can get to whatever was jamming the cylinder. (This is an old lock, probably 20 years).

The binding of the latch and inner knob indicate a false alignment.
The knob fits on a split square rod, (one of the halves is hooked at the end). When I took out the knob and the split square rod, I noted their positions and put it back as it was. Would putting white lithium grease in the latch area help with the sticking?

The thumbturn was more than likely installed incorrectly if the cylinder doesn't work like supposed to.
There really isn't much of an installation/alignment to the thumbturn. The thumbturn has a square rod that fits in a square hole. (rotated square, like a diamond). Again, I put it back, just the way it was. Wife thinks that the key never worked when the thumbturn was used to extend the deadbolt before. So either this is a feature or it was broken before I worked on it.

Take the lock back out, & assumming you didn't take the case halves apart before, spray a little white grease or other spray-in lubricant (not WD-40....won't last) into the case innards, & check the operation using a screwdriver or similar in your hand. work fine? Assemble the cylinder, then the thumbturn, still work fine? In other words, assemble it little by little, checking operation at each step, as you fit it back on the door. Be sure there's a little in-out play of the knob/rose (or escutcheon) assy, before tightening the set screw securely.

If you did take the case halves apart, well, that could be a whole 'nuther story...

Take the lock back out, & assumming you didn't take the case halves apart before, spray a little white grease or other spray-in lubricant (not WD-40....won't last) into the case innards, & check the operation using a screwdriver or similar in your hand. work fine? Assemble the cylinder, then the thumbturn, still work fine? In other words, assemble it little by little, checking operation at each step, as you fit it back on the door. Be sure there's a little in-out play of the knob/rose (or escutcheon) assy, before tightening the set screw securely.

If you did take the case halves apart, well, that could be a whole 'nuther story...

Nope, I did not take out the mortise case. So there are three pieces that fit in that case
1. lock cylinder - screws in the mortise case. since it screws in, can't really have alignment issues, can it?
2. thumb turn - on diamond shaped rod, that fits in a diamond shaped hole. I can try 4 different positions for the thumb turn. (I used the position where vertical thumbturn is the off position)
3. knob - half split square rod (2 pieces) that fits in a square hole. (again tilted square like a diamond). The knob screws on that square rod. The square rod did not fit snugly in that diamond. So I am not very sure that I got this right.

Thanks for your suggestion to assemble it piece by piece and keep checking. I will do that next (and lube the innards of the case) and let you guys know how it turns out.

Go ahead & take the case out of the door so you can lube it & assemble it in hand to see if the lube freed it up...if it doesn't work well in hand you may have worn or broken parts.
I understand Baldwin has pretty good customer service & stocks many parts, so keep that in mind.
The split spindle with hook design isn't found too much anymore, as a great deal of wear takes place where the hook pulls against the hub, and the spindle pieces start to round out the hub hole. If too many parts are worn, you're likely due for a new lock.

To remove the mortise case, I will need to remove both plates on the side of the door and then the case can be pulled out?
The outer plate is easy to come out. (needed to loosen the set screw that holds the cylinder)
The inner plate did not come off when I tried earlier. Its about 2/3 mm inside the pocket and there is nothing that I can use to pull it out. any ideas?
Once that plate comes out, does the case come out easily? or is it fitted with something else?

Thanks

Having worked on numerous Baldwin locks, I can tell you that, often when installed by a contractor, the holes are often off by a fraction.

Consequently, when loosening screws, the external cylinder will often stick until the inside and outside trim plates are loosened also.

When tightening everything back up, you often need to do the screws up slowly to find where it binds.

Baldwin locks are guaranteed for life. If you need replacement parts, simply call Baldwin and they will send replacements FREE.

That "inner" plate is attached to the lock case, which may fit very snugly in the pocket...put a screwdriver thru the hub so you can pull out on the lock with both hands to get it started coming out, then you can grab the ears of the plate.

Took the mortise case out. The key and the thumbturn work fine on the lock. The latch however is sticky. (The lock was rusted in some places too :( ) So I liberally put white grease inside the case and moved the parts a few times. The latch seemed a little less sticky, but I suppose I have to live with sticky latch (or get a new lock. Will Baldwin replace the lock due to rust/sticky latch?)

Put the lock back in, checking every step of the way. Now the key and thumb turn are working as expected. latch is sticky in one direction, but not sticky in the other direction. may be it will loosen a little more in next few days as the lub goes around?

Anyway, thanks for the help! it was really appreciated

Sticky one way but not the other is likely wear on one lobe of the hub cam but not the other, maybe because the knob has been turned primarily in one direction for most of it's life....new hub, maybe new latch, a couple of springs.

Hi,
I've the same baldwin backset on my and going through the same problem.
I install the new backset, and it work fine for couple of weeks and then stop latching and the deadbolt also not working.
I've the split spindle in my lock also, Can please tell me why the split spindle does not work? If I can make it work with your expertise that will be really great.
I've already call the baldwin and they going to send me the new one piece spindle.
However, the way tech guy has given me the instruction that I need to drill a hole through the lock to the door, cause the new spindle have screw on the front end.
Thank you for your help.

The older style "split" spindles were separateable (sp?) in the middle. They were removed by unhooking them.

The new type of split spindles are one piece that are joined by a tube shaped piece in the middle.

Other versions use a single spindle for the outer knob/lever that is held to the inside by the screw (you mention). The inner spindle is usually attached to a plate or mechanism, so it's a separate piece.

Check your alignment, I suggest this is the most common problem and the primary reason they wear out quickly.