Walls and Ceilings - Help creating entrance in closed wall
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Snaffoo
06-24-09, 09:49 PM
We are in the process of reno'ing our place. I have already wided an entrance from our foyer to our living room, but after doing so, I am now thinking I would like to further open up the wall and the one perpendicular to it to really open up the downstairs. The best way to describe what I am trying to do is shown in the pictures in the link below:
Openning wall - Folder Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage (http://www.box.net/shared/5iqcpk9ilq)
As you can see the walls are around the stairs leading upstairs. Looking that Orginal wall picture, my hope is to create an entrance on the left and then open up the middle, but have a railing there since we have an air return vent I don't want to move. Above the wall on the right side of the picture is a bedroom and the ceiling joists run perpendicular to the wall so I am 90% sure it is load bearing. The joists above the wall to the left also run perdendicular to this wall so again I am pretty sure it is load bearing.
There is a recepical and a thermostat on the left wall, but they are easy to move so I am not concerned about that.
My questions are:
- is this possible?
- is 11ft too long for a 2x10 wood beem and do I have to use a steel i-beem?
- how big do the support posts have to be? Can they be double 2x4s for the side jack posts? And what would the middle post be?
Openning wall - Folder Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage (http://www.box.net/shared/5iqcpk9ilq)
As you can see the walls are around the stairs leading upstairs. Looking that Orginal wall picture, my hope is to create an entrance on the left and then open up the middle, but have a railing there since we have an air return vent I don't want to move. Above the wall on the right side of the picture is a bedroom and the ceiling joists run perpendicular to the wall so I am 90% sure it is load bearing. The joists above the wall to the left also run perdendicular to this wall so again I am pretty sure it is load bearing.
There is a recepical and a thermostat on the left wall, but they are easy to move so I am not concerned about that.
My questions are:
- is this possible?
- is 11ft too long for a 2x10 wood beem and do I have to use a steel i-beem?
- how big do the support posts have to be? Can they be double 2x4s for the side jack posts? And what would the middle post be?
coops28
06-26-09, 07:08 AM
Those are very specific structural questions that I'm not sure anyone here is compfortable giving answers to. An engineer is you best bet to get the answers.
But... I think a 2x10 header is fine at 11' and doubled up two by fours make a good post.
good luck
But... I think a 2x10 header is fine at 11' and doubled up two by fours make a good post.
good luck
GBR in WA
06-26-09, 05:17 PM
As you are carring thousands of pounds in the baasement, I would consult with a Structural Engineer as mentioned. Please get some help on this, not from forums. This may be a DIY project for some but could be more difficult than you realize.
To support one floor in the center wall of a 20' building with 2-2x10's will span 8'1".
It depends on the loads above- roof, ceiling, etc. Also the new beam needs positive bearing through the basement to a poured pier under your slab or under the crawl space. Cutting and installing blocking at the floor space, positive ties (metal strapping), pouring concrete, engineered drawings to the permit counter of your Building Department for your safety. Hire it out (or do it yourself) and the contractor will get a S.E. and permit-- the liability is just too great. Be safe, G
To support one floor in the center wall of a 20' building with 2-2x10's will span 8'1".
It depends on the loads above- roof, ceiling, etc. Also the new beam needs positive bearing through the basement to a poured pier under your slab or under the crawl space. Cutting and installing blocking at the floor space, positive ties (metal strapping), pouring concrete, engineered drawings to the permit counter of your Building Department for your safety. Hire it out (or do it yourself) and the contractor will get a S.E. and permit-- the liability is just too great. Be safe, G
Snaffoo
06-27-09, 12:12 PM
Ok, I will get a SE in, but I just have a question on why I would need to touch the foundation and wall in the basement. We have a full basement below and there is a wall directly under the wall I am looking to open up. Therefore, isn't this wall already picking up the loading from the wall above so why would I need to change it?
GBR in WA
06-27-09, 05:46 PM
Anytime you replace a section of stud wall with a beam, you put a concentrated load on points that had dispersed loads. Calculate the loads above the beam to figure: the beam size; the post sizes; and the footing sizes on the earth. (With the composition of the soil affecting size of footing)
A wall has load per lineal feet, when you remove a wall, all the loads are added to each other, combined. Floor joists are figured at 40#per square foot live load. The joist span is from room wall to room wall, say, 16'. So each wall is carrying 8' of load at 40# per square foot = 320#. Then add the other side of beam/wall, as to how much it is carrying, say 1/2 of those joists span = 7'x40#= 280#per sq.ft. Add together-
280# + 320# = 600# of load on the center wall or beam. Now multiply the beams span times the load per foot--say 15' span x 600# load = 9000# divide by two posts = 4500# per post sitting on 3/4" plywood subfloor. A concentrated or point load. This load needs to go to the earth, transfered by solid wood all the way down to a concrete footing with a surface area large enough to disperse it safely. (Not punch into the earth)
Short version- you change the load from spread out to pin-point. Be safe, G
A wall has load per lineal feet, when you remove a wall, all the loads are added to each other, combined. Floor joists are figured at 40#per square foot live load. The joist span is from room wall to room wall, say, 16'. So each wall is carrying 8' of load at 40# per square foot = 320#. Then add the other side of beam/wall, as to how much it is carrying, say 1/2 of those joists span = 7'x40#= 280#per sq.ft. Add together-
280# + 320# = 600# of load on the center wall or beam. Now multiply the beams span times the load per foot--say 15' span x 600# load = 9000# divide by two posts = 4500# per post sitting on 3/4" plywood subfloor. A concentrated or point load. This load needs to go to the earth, transfered by solid wood all the way down to a concrete footing with a surface area large enough to disperse it safely. (Not punch into the earth)
Short version- you change the load from spread out to pin-point. Be safe, G