Walls and Ceilings - Load Bearing wall confirmation please, is it??

I just bought a foreclosed house and have been in it for 2 months. We have been doing a lot of work here and there but now it is time for me to get to work in the garage where I spend most of my time working on all my dirt bikes, atv's and my truck. It is a 3 car garage and the previous owners enclosed the 3rd garage for one of their kid to live in. It was a pretty crappy job to say the least but so far we tore down two small walls that they had attached to a center wall that divided the garages up. I need it more open and cant tell if its load bearing or not.

The wall divides the third car garage from the rest and it almost makes it look like the third car garage came later in the houses history but this is not the case. I can't tell if maybe there were two beams supporting it and they enclosed that as part of the room or if it was always there. Almost all 3 car garages I have seen are open with a beam or two somewhere for support but not an entire wall. Some pics are below, hopefully they will help.

The wall to the left is the divider. We took the walls out already that are coming into the two car as they were added for shelving in the 3 garage/bedroom set up leaving up with a center wall.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture013.jpg

The wall remaining is in line exactly with the main portion of the house. Not the 3rd garage, hopefully that makes sense.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture067.jpg

This was the inside of the 3rd garage. The garage door is the wall to the right of the pic and center wall still up is the wall straight on.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture065.jpg

I was reading up on load bearing walls and one trick someone mentioned was to look at your roof top and if it is sloping towards you all walls facing you straight on are the load bearing ones. Sounded kind of off to me but hopefully someone can clarify this for me.

If any other type of pics would help let me know, I will take them.

It basically calls for a "road trip" to the attic of the garage. Determine the direction of the ceiling rafters/joists. See if they are broken up and if the wall below the division is at an intersection of any of the rafter/joist framework. You will need to find out if there trusses or stick framing. What size framing it is. Oh, yeah, take a camera with you, make some pix up there and post them back. It would tell us more than the exterior and interior room pictures.

for now this is what I have.....

Its just to hot for me to climb back in there so hopefully these will help a little. Will have to try to take more pics either early AM or late at night.

Let me know if these help at all.

This looking directly at the wall above the garage wall in place I speak of. I am right at the attick pop up on the edge of the garage right at the outside wall for all pics.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture089.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture092.jpg

This picture makes me think it is a load bearing wall.
You can see where the bathroom tub is and where you can crawl around it to go deeper back. This seems to be the exact location the garage wall goes to in the garage.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture094.jpg

These are from inside the garage facing the wall...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture097.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture098.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture099.jpg

There is also a hole in the wall where I can see the framing dead center. All I can really see is some 2x6's running up and down. I sure hope this wall just got closed off at sometime or there is an option that wont cost me an arm and leg to get it safely opened up by a pro.

From the pictures you have it appears to me that the third bay was added on at a later date. If this is the case then the wall is bearing, (see the beam going into the wall) the beam does not appear to be in the third bay. If the third bay was original and the wall was just a partition the beam should go through the third bay.

That is what I had thought about the 3rd garage being added on but there is another house in the neighborhood Identical to mine. I have been trying to catch the homeowner sometime to see if I could have a look but no luck. My next step is to see if I can find the layout of the house through the city town hall from the builder's plans.

Also wouldn't that wall be completely closed off and not just have it part way like it is if it was originally a 2 car garage? Another thing I thought about is considering there is no rooms above the third garage there wouldn't be need for the support of that beam to run all the way across.

My buddies house is somewhat like mine and his garage has that same beam going across the top of his garage but he has a support beam with no enclosed wall. Almost as if I were to knock out the wall but leave the two ends intact running up to the ceiling as supports.

crawled a little deeper in, here are a few more shots...

Here's a pic of what I believe is above the support beam you are seeing in the garage
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture102.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture103.jpg

Corner of the bathroom
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture104.jpg

Above the wall I am asking about in the garage.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture100.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture101.jpg

You are correct in the fact a vertical support under the beam will suffice. Do a little demo work around the vertical space under the beam. I believe you will find either a lally column or multiple vertical members holding it up.
Incidentally, do something about those cable connections in the attic. They must be in junction boxes with a cover attached.

This weekend all the cables are getting taken care of. The home inspector had brought that up but I got caught up with so much other stuff the task fell behind. Already have all the junction boxes and everything ready to go.

In what sense do you mean do work around the verticle space? I am going to take down some of the drywall on the one side this week just to see exactly what is going on in there as well. I'm just not sure if there are 2x6's framed the whole length of the wall or if there is a solid beam in place on either end. Going to have to check it out this week when I have time from work. I will update with more pics as to what i come up with.

Would there need to be a verticle support on each end or just one in the middle. I will not tear anything down until I can get it fully confirmed someway, hopefully a builder down the road a little bit, I just want to make sure I know what going on first so I am not taken for a ride.

Thanks so much so far!

Oh and one last thing, the 2x6 wood I can see where the hole is in the drywall is spaced roughly 23" apart if that matters

Take all the sheetrock down. You will see what your skeleton looks like. The vertical member is not a "beam", but a "post". You will need support on the end of the beam to the floor, which I am sure is there, just let us know what you find. As Bill has said, this #3 garage seems to have been added, since the beam does not extend into it. It's structure should be just fine as is.

I will see what the skeleton looks like hopefully this weekend. Luckily my realtor that set me up with my place just sold another house to a client who is a structural engineer and she is going to see if he will come check out my situation. I also spoke with my neighbors who have lived in their place since 87 and since they have lived there the 3rd garage was always present. The house was built in 85 so it is possible in 2 yrs the garage was added on. Are there any give aways that would tell me if it was added on at a later date than the original build?

It is very well possible the 3rd garage has always been there, it is just the design difference puts us on a different path. The beam would (should) have run all the way through the third garage if it was part of the initial construction. Although, you know about "change orders". After the initial framing, the original owner could have come on site and made changes that would have added the garage, making it "original", but an add on none the less. Let us know on the post thingy.

Thanks for all the help so far! I will keep this updated as I fond out more.

As for the beam going across, eventhough there is nothing above the third garage except for the attic would the beam really be needed, obviosuly as you could see from the pics the beam ends right where the bathroom is on the second floor giving all the support for that wall on the 2nd floor.

Either way thanks so far and we will see what happens!

Yes, the beam could be a superstructure to take the weight of the second floor bathroom, etc. The third car garage didn't need it since it only had one floor. I think we're getting there. Let us know how the demo goes this weekend.

Try accessing your County property taxes online. Enter your address and it will tell: year built, # garages, square footage, type siding, # bedrooms, when sold, price, yearly taxes,size of lot, year of improvements, all public knowledge. Be safe, G

Tore down the drywall and here is what we got going on.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture112.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture109.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture110.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/New%20house/Picture111.jpg

The 2x8 running along the top has a gap between it and the beam that the bathroom is running along. In some areas it is also not lined up with the ceiling in the garage, some areas it is below it while other spots it is parallel to it.

GBR: Thanks for the tip on checking the public records. I was able to pull up my house and in fact it says year built:1985, parking: 3 car covered garage along with all other info.

So I guess it had a 3 car all along!

From what I have seen, the post you see is taking the weight of the beam and the structure above it. Note the compression of the bottom plate in the one picture??? A lot of weight, but it is concentrated.
One more project. Extend the 2x8 jacks on the sides of the post to the plate. Cut back on some of the ceiling so you can see above the plate, and remove the remaining sheetrock (I know PITA). If the weight is not resting firmly on the plate, use a reciprocating saw and cut the nails between the plates. The wall will release. Leave it there a few days and check the looseness of the wall. If the wall still moves freely, it is most likely the post is taking all the weight. If it settles, you will know it is bearing. As always, we recommend the employment of a structural engineer to keep the garage from falling on your Ferrari.

Larry

thanks for the tips, I do in fact have a structural engineer that is going to help me tackle what needs to be done on this project but it would be nice to know what is going on beforehand. Thanks a ton

You have made great inroads and it will help the engineer greatly. I wish I had all the demolition (deconstruction) done for me when I arrived on site. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Chandler, I was re-reading your post above mentioning the bottom plate. When you say plate, what exactly are you describing? I see how the post is made up with the four posts stackeded together and on top of it the beam that is running through the 2 car garage over to it is the same way sitting on top and everything is nailed together by the metal braces.

Hopefully the structural engineer will be out here this week but I was also thinking it might be better to open up the middle of the area and leave two sections connected on the ends since I have outlets already ran in the area. More or less knock down the center 2x6's, maybe put a header across the top and leave both ends sheetrocked and painted with majority of the middle open. This way I can make everything sit nicely in line with the beam already coming through the 2 car. WOuld that just complicate things or would it be easier since I would still be leaving up some of the framing just re-inforcing it differently? Just an idea. Thanks for everything!

The bottom plate is the pressure treated board on the floor that the studs are placed on. Your engineer may agree with me, but I would not try to bridge the beam. I would leave the verticals in place and extend the short jacks. That will give you firm support right down to the concrete. Bridging it may not work and will cause a bow, and you probably won't be able to use anything less than an 11" triple LVL beam, which would lower your headspace 11 more inches. Just some thoughts. With the engineer's blessings, I would remove all the wall to either side of the vertical support, giving a lot more space.

I thought I lost a post, but it showed up.

Thanks, I will wait to see what the Engineer has to say. Out of curiousity how much would something like this cost? Once the engineer comes in and goes over everything is it something I can do easily or should I just bring someone in to do the bracing work and I can finish off the sheet rocking and everything. Too bad your not in the SW, you have been a huge help!

Once the engineer gives the green light and lets you know what you can and can't do, the work would be as easy as what you have already done. One more thing that I haven't asked....is it your intent to have as much open space as possible between the two garage halves? That has been my assumption.
That's what my daughter says....she is in Denver.

Correct, the more space the better so I can set up my work area for my toys and still be able to move around. Right now I have my air compressor, 2 ATV's, 2 dirt bikes and other misc things in the 3rd garage side and I can barely get around because that wall is there and just gets in the way.

The guy I am trying to get over here locally mentioned something about a Shear wall but he doesn't think its that because of the sheet rock that was used. He's basing it off of the pictures for now though.