Lighting, Light Fixtures, Ceiling and Exhaust Fans - Install electrical box for ceiling fan without attic access
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Jim McClain
06-20-09, 12:14 AM
I just purchased a ceiling fan with light that weighs about 35 pounds. My plan is to replace 2 separate existing fixtures, a cheap fan and a really ugly ceiling light, with this:
http://1footinthegrave.com/images/discus2-roman-bronze-sm.gif (http://1footinthegrave.com/images/discus2-roman-bronze.gif)
The ceiling has no attic access, but I would really like to move the location of the fan/light to a different location than either the existing fan or the existing light. It would mean there is no supporting lumber (the ceiling is nailed to the joists of the trusses, 24" oc) in the new location.
I am familiar with old work electrical boxes and installed a couple of these in the interior and exterior entry way for ceiling lights. But that kind of box is obviously not rated for the kind of weight a ceiling fan would impose. But a search around the Net has revealed that there are boxes with cross members that are labeled old work. I just can't see how they can be installed. Each side appears to have to be screwed into a ceiling joist and the arms are adjustable up to 24". But I don't have access to the attic, as I mentioned and cutting a very large hole in the ceiling would cause a loss of considerable blown-in insulation.
I figger some of you electrical experts can clear this up for me and help me accomplish my task. Can you point me to the right electrical box and help me understand how it is installed?
Thank you for your guidance.
Jim
http://1footinthegrave.com/images/discus2-roman-bronze-sm.gif (http://1footinthegrave.com/images/discus2-roman-bronze.gif)
The ceiling has no attic access, but I would really like to move the location of the fan/light to a different location than either the existing fan or the existing light. It would mean there is no supporting lumber (the ceiling is nailed to the joists of the trusses, 24" oc) in the new location.
I am familiar with old work electrical boxes and installed a couple of these in the interior and exterior entry way for ceiling lights. But that kind of box is obviously not rated for the kind of weight a ceiling fan would impose. But a search around the Net has revealed that there are boxes with cross members that are labeled old work. I just can't see how they can be installed. Each side appears to have to be screwed into a ceiling joist and the arms are adjustable up to 24". But I don't have access to the attic, as I mentioned and cutting a very large hole in the ceiling would cause a loss of considerable blown-in insulation.
I figger some of you electrical experts can clear this up for me and help me accomplish my task. Can you point me to the right electrical box and help me understand how it is installed?
Thank you for your guidance.
Jim
Wirepuller38
06-20-09, 06:00 AM
Are you sure about no attic access? How was the insulation blown in?
Tolyn Ironhand
06-20-09, 10:03 AM
All splices must be in a box. All boxes must be accessible. The old locations will need to be left and have a blank cover installed.
That said you can get "remodel" ceiling fan boxes at most stores that have arms that expand to make contact with the framing even up to 24" O.C.. They can be installed from below the ceiling.
That said you can get "remodel" ceiling fan boxes at most stores that have arms that expand to make contact with the framing even up to 24" O.C.. They can be installed from below the ceiling.
chandler
06-20-09, 10:47 AM
I have several of these on hand for old work installations. The rod acts like a turn buckle when twisted. The two ends space it properly above the sheetrock and the two pins dig into the joists. After you install the rod, the junction box is attached using u-bolts. Very solid.Old Work Ceiling Fan Brace #937 by Raco at HardwareAndTools.com (http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/u825692)
Jim McClain
06-20-09, 10:49 AM
Are you sure about no attic access? How was the insulation blown in?
Yes, I'm sure. I have lived here almost 3 years and there are no access panels in my apartment. The insulation was done when the building was built. At that time, half this apartment was the master bedroom of the unit next door and the other half was a garage.
I have no way of getting into the attic.
All splices must be in a box. All boxes must be accessible. The old locations will need to be left and have a blank cover installed.
Yes, I understand that. That isn't my problem.
That said you can get "remodel" ceiling fan boxes at most stores that have arms that expand to make contact with the framing even up to 24" O.C.. They can be installed from below the ceiling.
Yes, I understand this too. My problem is I don't understand how they work - how they are attached without making a very large hole in the sheetrock, possibly 2 holes next to ceiling joists so I can attach the braces. I'm guessing, so the reason I came here was for someone to explain how this works and maybe even point me to the kind of box I need. I live 80 miles from a Lowe's or Home Depot. I visit that town every week and I want to be prepared to buy just what I need. I don't trust the sales staff at those stores to have the expertise.
So, short of knowing I have to cut a hole the size of the new box right where I want the new fan to hang, I'm lost.
Jim
Yes, I'm sure. I have lived here almost 3 years and there are no access panels in my apartment. The insulation was done when the building was built. At that time, half this apartment was the master bedroom of the unit next door and the other half was a garage.
I have no way of getting into the attic.
All splices must be in a box. All boxes must be accessible. The old locations will need to be left and have a blank cover installed.
Yes, I understand that. That isn't my problem.
That said you can get "remodel" ceiling fan boxes at most stores that have arms that expand to make contact with the framing even up to 24" O.C.. They can be installed from below the ceiling.
Yes, I understand this too. My problem is I don't understand how they work - how they are attached without making a very large hole in the sheetrock, possibly 2 holes next to ceiling joists so I can attach the braces. I'm guessing, so the reason I came here was for someone to explain how this works and maybe even point me to the kind of box I need. I live 80 miles from a Lowe's or Home Depot. I visit that town every week and I want to be prepared to buy just what I need. I don't trust the sales staff at those stores to have the expertise.
So, short of knowing I have to cut a hole the size of the new box right where I want the new fan to hang, I'm lost.
Jim
Jim McClain
06-20-09, 10:56 AM
I have several of these on hand for old work installations. The rod acts like a turn buckle when twisted. The two ends space it properly above the sheetrock and the two pins dig into the joists. After you install the rod, the junction box is attached using u-bolts. Very solid.Old Work Ceiling Fan Brace #937 by Raco at HardwareAndTools.com (http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/u825692)
Yreka! ...er you're wreaka - something like that. Now I understand. Thank you very much, that's exzactly what I was after.
Best R'gards,
Jim
PS: you posted as I was replying to the other 2. Thanks to everyone for helping.
Yreka! ...er you're wreaka - something like that. Now I understand. Thank you very much, that's exzactly what I was after.
Best R'gards,
Jim
PS: you posted as I was replying to the other 2. Thanks to everyone for helping.
Tolyn Ironhand
06-21-09, 09:47 AM
BTW - You are not allowed to do electrical work in a place that you are renting.
Jim McClain
06-21-09, 10:21 AM
BTW - You are not allowed to do electrical work in a place that you are renting.
If the landlord also happens to be one of my oldest and dearest friends, I am. I have his and his wife's blessing to do anything I want. Thank you for your concern though (whether it was for him or for me).
Jim
If the landlord also happens to be one of my oldest and dearest friends, I am. I have his and his wife's blessing to do anything I want. Thank you for your concern though (whether it was for him or for me).
Jim