Communications: Voice, Radio and Data - Improving Home Office Broadband Performance

Coming up with a title for my problem was difficult.

I'm running into issues with my CATV wiring at home, with regards to the ability to run much more than a basic cable modem in my office.

We recently upgraded to HDTV, and soon after that - my home office performance has gone downhill. To the point where my provider, Comcast, can't even 'see' my cable modem (2 different ones) on my line unless I go to the basement where the service originates. I'm not getting enough signal to my cable modem (2nd floor) from all the splits / boosts along the way.

A service guy came out & said our house (built in 2000) doesn't have the wiring infrastructure to support my data requirements. Our entire house is run using RG59, which I now understand is pathetic.

He said there were a few options:

1. Go CAT5 instead (evidently, our wiring could support this). I have no clue what this means from a 'new hardware' standpoint, but I understand that I would basically be using my phone line for high-speed cable. I would guess that somewhere a cable modem-to-CAT5 connection would need to be made, and I'm guessing that means a new special cable modem for that purpose.

2. Go cable modem / Wireless from the basement, where the signal is stronger. I get it, but I'm afraid of not having a quality signal on the 2nd floor, from the source in the basement. New hardware - stronger wireless router / repeater, other?

3. Replace the wiring or re-route the home office connection using RG6 cable. I might be able to rig something up, snake something through my garage (home office is bonus room above garage) from my basement. This seems the 'best' option, but also the most difficult.

I don't know how to weigh the options, because I lack all the information necessary to make the decision. Can someone help me fill in the blanks?

For reference, I have a diagram that shows all the connections, splits, boosts, etc. But, I don't know if this forum supports attachments. Any ideas on where I can upload my diagram?

thanks!

bforeste

This is a diagram of my setup. http://www.kinesium.com/images/HomeCATV_Setup.pdf

I'm considering connecting #11 to my cable modem+wireless base station, and seeing if I can swing that.

I'm having trouble understanding your diagram, do you mean to tell us that you have nine (or ten) televisions and/or video recorders?

Category (Cat) 5 is a cable specification used on Ethernet systems. Your current cable modem probably has a Cat 5 Ethernet jack. It looks like a wider version of a standard telephone jack.

Ideally your cable modem would be connected at a two-way splitter immediately after the cable enters the house and the other branch of the splitter would then go to a distribution amplifier with sufficient outputs to handle your video needs. Your having multiple splitters along the way is a recipe for failure.

Again, the ideal solution is a structured plan where each television/video jack has a "home run" back to a central location where the "active" jacks are connected to the amplifier. For data the same idea only instead of using coaxial cable you use Cat 5 cable and the active jacks are connected to the router which in turn is connected to the modem.

How many computers are connected in your home network and are they wireless or wired connections? Do you have the ability to run new cabling between the point where the Comcast cable enters your house and where all of your jacks are located?

I'm having trouble understanding your diagram, do you mean to tell us that you have nine (or ten) televisions and/or video recorders?

Good question. The diagram shows places where I have an active 'hookup' to the cable line / highlighted with the red box. I have a TV on the 2nd floor, along with the Cable Modem. On the first floor, I have the HDTV.

Your having multiple splitters along the way is a recipe for failure.

Agreed. We are still discovering all the various shortcuts that were taken during construction. We are the 2nd owners, so I can't take credit for the design.

For data the same idea only instead of using coaxial cable you use Cat 5 cable and the active jacks are connected to the router which in turn is connected to the modem.

I've read about the 'home run' thing in the forums. Honestly, I still don't really understand it. From a PC standpoint, my 'active jacks' would be from the router, right? So, how can I change / re-route the cable to get my 'home run' setup?

The video I'm leaving as-is. I'm sure picture quality could be improved, but I'm running 2 homes businesses from my home office, so the data is paramount. To your other question, I run between 2-3 computers and 2 network storage devices. 2 of my computers I use wireless, the NAS like to be wired (but I can get around that), and I have at least 1 PC that requires a LAN conx. So, flexibility would be nice, but I would settle for a strong wifi signal.

I'm testing the 'pure wireless' setup from location #11 currently. My next stop will be the basement, where I expect some performance hit on the 2nd floor.

Thanks

bforeste

I'm not an expert on this, but I think it should look like this:

<img src="http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2109/layoutr.gif" WIDTH=640 HEIGHT=447>

Click here for full size pic. (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2109/layoutr.gif)

If your modem is not DHCP enabled then something like this:

<img src="http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3161/layout2d.gif" WIDTH=640 HEIGHT=447>

Click here for full size pic. (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3161/layout2d.gif)


Hope that helps any.

Hum, the 8-way amp has 9 ports on it, my bad ^^

DHG - thanks for the post / diagram. I'm a picture guy & it definitely helps me follow along.

The 'Data Switch' this diagram is referring to is the Router, correct? And the WAP's are wireless emitters / WIFI routers?

I think I can get close to this, but my problem will be the run of RG6 cable from the 2-port split to the 2nd floor. Or, the alternative of 2-port split to cable modem in the basement w/wireless point in the basement. I tried this today (albeit with RG59 cable) and I lose significant bandwidth while on the 2nd floor (with the wireless in the basement).

Is it feasible to keep the cable modem in the basement, tied into the 2-way split with RG6 cable, then CAT5 to the 2nd floor & tie into a second floor WIFI base station? That way, I bypass the RG59 cable & avoid having to replace it with RG6 by using the (supposedly pre-existing) CAT5 setup...

hmmm...

bforeste

DHG has given you some good pictures and advice. I am not a fan of wireless data transfer so I can only address the Ethernet system.

I seriously doubt the problems you are experiencing are due to using RG-59U cable instead of RG-6U. You will experience problems with more than one splitter between the modem and the point-of-entry of your cable system. As I see it on your diagram you are going through a splitter, an amplifier and then two more splitters before getting to the modem. If you moved the modem to the study connection then you would have only the initial splitter in the line and you might find that this alone would work for your wireless data transmission.

Something else that you might try is if you have unused ports on this mish-mosh cable set up, you really need to have "terminators" on these unused jacks. These are usually less than a dollar each and look like a simple cap that screws on the F-59 jack.

Lastly, If I interpret your drawing as the black lines as being unused jacks then I would try removing the Antronix splitter and coupling the incoming cable to the cable for the distribution amplifier, substituting the Antronix splitter for the amplifier, and then using the BDS102 splitter to the office and front bedroom. Conversely, you could leave the amplifier in place, terminate the unused jacks and then use the BDS102 to split the amplified signal to the front BR and office.

As for the "home run"...this simply means that each jack, video or data, has its cable run to a central location where the various "cross connects" can be made. Here is a picture of what I did in my garage where the TV cable enters.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1193775/patchpanel.JPG

This is after I changed to Verizon FiOS for my Internet but the same system with a different modem was in use when I had Comcast for Internet and TV. This shows all the coaxial (black and grey) cables from F-59 jacks throughout the house coming to the central location. Although no splitters are in use they would mount next to the amplifier (also not in use) while the Ethernet data cables (Cat 5) are the blue cables that terminate on the jacks located in the panel directly below the shelf. The yellow cables are "patch cables) that run between the modem/router (above the shelf) and connect the jacks of the modem/router to the active jacks (3 in this case) throughout the house.

The 'Data Switch' this diagram is referring to is the Router, correct? And the WAP's are wireless emitters / WIFI routers?

Maybe, depends what you have.

I have this:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8336/stuffhmo.th.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8336/stuffhmo.jpg)

The box on the left is a residential gateway, one on the right is a modem, the two blue-green ones on the bottom are switches.

Most people call residential gateways a router. (They're not a real router, just a gateway which can function as a firewall, DHCP client, and usually contains a four port switch.)

I'm guessing yours goes modem > router > PC ?

Yeah WAPs are Wireles Access Points :)


I think I can get close to this, but my problem will be the run of RG6 cable from the 2-port split to the 2nd floor. Or, the alternative of 2-port split to cable modem in the basement w/wireless point in the basement. I tried this today (albeit with RG59 cable) and I lose significant bandwidth while on the 2nd floor (with the wireless in the basement).

They don't have to be on the same floor. You can run cat5 to the different floors of your house, even put a WAP on each floor.

Is it feasible to keep the cable modem in the basement, tied into the 2-way split with RG6 cable, then CAT5 to the 2nd floor & tie into a second floor WIFI base station? That way, I bypass the RG59 cable & avoid having to replace it with RG6 by using the (supposedly pre-existing) CAT5 setup...

Yes.


The way I would do it, if was starting from scatch, would be run the coax line coming into the house from the basement all the way up to the attic. Maybe even run outside of the house from the grey NID box to the attic (all depends how nice your house looks.)

From there I would split it off with the two way, and bring both the cable modem, router, and cable TV amp up into the attic. Set up a nice shelf for the modem and router, and mount the amp above it on the wall. Connect one split to the modem, other to the amp.

From there I would drop the RG6 and CAT5 lines down through the walls into the rooms that need them. Then do a combo cable/RJ45 faceplate type deal.

Then plug your WAP into the room around the middle of the house.

That my thinking for a total redo. Though if you do have CAT5 cables in your walls already, then maybe it would be better to stick with the RG59.

If your jacks look like this:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9780/catgha.jpg

Then they are probably CAT5 :)

I seriously doubt the problems you are experiencing are due to using RG-59U cable instead of RG-6U. You will experience problems with more than one splitter between the modem and the point-of-entry of your cable system. As I see it on your diagram you are going through a splitter, an amplifier and then two more splitters before getting to the modem. If you moved the modem to the study connection then you would have only the initial splitter in the line and you might find that this alone would work for your wireless data transmission.

Lastly, If I interpret your drawing as the black lines as being unused jacks then I would try removing the Antronix splitter and coupling the incoming cable to the cable for the distribution amplifier, substituting the Antronix splitter for the amplifier, and then using the BDS102 splitter to the office and front bedroom. Conversely, you could leave the amplifier in place, terminate the unused jacks and then use the BDS102 to split the amplified signal to the front BR and office.

Another thing on this, I don't think a modem can go through an amplifier? Well, downstream they can, but upstream?


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1193775/patchpanel.JPG

This is after I changed to Verizon FiOS for my Internet but the same system with a different modem was in use when I had Comcast for Internet and TV. This shows all the coaxial (black and grey) cables from F-59 jacks throughout the house coming to the central location. Although no splitters are in use they would mount next to the amplifier (also not in use) while the Ethernet data cables (Cat 5) are the blue cables that terminate on the jacks located in the panel directly below the shelf. The yellow cables are "patch cables) that run between the modem/router (above the shelf) and connect the jacks of the modem/router to the active jacks (3 in this case) throughout the house.
That looks nice, I'm doing something similar to this also.

Right now I'm redoing all the telephone, data, and TV cables throughout my house, and putting the main splitter and block on a sheet of plywood at the bottom of my stairwell. Just waiting on the wire spools i've ordered to arrive.

have you tried reverse path amp??? I use them all the time in my cable installs. We have +10 & +15 db reverse path amplifiers in the system i work in. My home runs from drop to a +15 db reverse path amp to a 8 way split which feeds my tv's and modem. All 7 of my tvs have hd dvrs on them, processing vod and all payper view. Hope this helps

That's my suggestion as well. Cable modems require both forward and return. The Electroline amp does not amplify the return path (although it does allow it to pass), so the return signal in your setup is down at least -15dB, which is pretty much all of it. Swapping lines #1 (MBR/Nursery) and #8 (Office) in the attic will get you to -8dB, which brings you back into the proper operating range of a typical cable modem.

Also, the RG59 is attenuating high forward-path frequencies at a rate of -7dB to -12dB per hundred feet (or -3.5dB to -6dB at 50 feet, cumulative). An amp with an equalizer will help overcome this attenuation.

have you tried reverse path amp???

No, but based on the suggestions, I think I will head to Radio Shack this morning. The cable tech was explaining some of this to my wife while I was out of town. A lot was lost in translation, but I'm starting to understand now.

My current infrastructure was probably fine for normal CATV, pre HD. Now, I'm placing too many demands on it. Yes, it seems to be a hack-job with all the splitters. It took me all morning to map it out.

So, my shopping list is


Reverse path amp with EQ
Small RG6 cable from RP AMP to Cable Modem
RG59 'caps' to terminate unused cable hookups


Since I still can't make it cleanly into the Home Office (#8) without further researching the CAT5 option, I believe I will use (#11) in the study to connect Cable Modem / WAP. So, I'm thinking that my Reverse Path AMP should sit between the Antronix splitter and #11 in the basement (obviously).

I will explore the CAT5 option, as the cable tech said I was CAT5 already. I'll do my research to make sure it's a good option. I like the idea of having it clean & doing it myself if possible. So, ultimately I will work towards the option of cable modem in basement to CAT5 into Home Office (guessing it will use a phone jack) then into WAP / Data Switch.

I'm guessing yours goes modem > router > PC ?

Pretty much. I go modem > Apple Time Capsule (which is my 802.11g gateway) > Mac, Mac, PC

Thanks again for all the great input. This is probably the only forum I've ever used that has been both helpful and non-insulting!

bforeste