Painting - Sherwin Williams VS Benjamin Moore

I will tell you my experience. I have been using Benjamin Moore for years. My Benjamin Moore store does not have a computer color matching system. That really frustrates me. For the first name, I went to Sherwin Williams. Actually, when I lived in Florida for a brief time I went there & they ignored me. I have returned to my hometown in upstate NY & gave Sherwin William another try. I am VERY GLAD I did. Benjamin sells samples of 2 oz paints (in select colors) for $4.59. Sherwin Williams sells colors to go in quart size (any color) for $5.50. What a bargain! The color I bought wasnt right. I took it back & asked the clerk to add white to it. I did this 2 more times (no charge!). Finally, we got the color right. Over the 2 days of doing this, I watched the clerk interact with customers. He knew his stuff! He was very professional. He never tried to push products. I'll be returning there to buy the primer & the paint I need. I also plan to speak to the owner of the store and let them know what a terrific employee they have! JinaBeer 4U2

I don't understand why a modern day paint store would not have a computer match system:wall:

There can be big differences between stores [any brand] If/when you find one that has both decent coatings and competent help, it pays to continue to do business with them:thumbup:

Glad you found a good store and I'm sure they will appreciate the praises!

I have to assume the BM store is something along the lines of a franchise dealer owned situation.That might explain the lack of equipment if it has to come out of the owners pocket.That said unless the store doesn't get much volume,it's a worthy investment and I'm a bit surprised that BM wouldn't either require he had one or possibly supply one.

Obviously there's a huge difference in business philosophy at these two stores....

thimbly...please follow up on your promise about talking to the manager/owner...a short letter would be even better. Most people have no idea how much difference that can make to a persons job/pay. An atta-boy is one thing...a bonus or pay raise is even better.

I think most will agree BM and SWP are the top of the line. It's too bad you found a store which does not seem to meet the standards typically found in a store selling BM.

A lot of times companies just push standard colors through high output stores. We have a store in Mass called Spags which sells standard colors of Moores and Cabot stains. Local dealers got together and threatened Ben Moore that if they continued to allow Spags to sell their paint at discounted prices, they would drop the line. Ben Moore replied "please drop the line if you like, we sell more paint through Spags than any other paint store in the USA." So I guess there exists merchandising and retail issues that only make sense to some.

Bill

BB...not still open are they? Spag's - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spag%27s)

I actually went to BM store to buy paint today. They are very helpful. I had so many questions and he was able to answer them truthfully, since I also double check with marksr on this forum.

1 gallon of aura = 59.99. I bought 3 gallons only since i am trying out my room first. He still gave me a 20% discount and gave me free roller and brush. He said if i have an questions while painting i can always call him.

He even carrred the paint out to the car but i told him it was ok since he has other customers in the store.

I drove 25 miles to this store while i live less than 1 mile from kelly moore but i haven't try them out yet. I know its cheaper but i don't know about the quality

Just so nobody misunderstands what they are seeing in this thread,it should be understood that BM and SW operate differently at retail.

BM franchises the product to a variety of dealers.I'm not sure there are any BM owned and/or operated stores but most BM retailers are not owned by BM.They are independent retailers,often also of other paint brands or are hardware stores etc.

SW does operate their own stores.I am assuming some are franchised but I believe many are heavily controlled by SW even if not owned by them.SW owns and manufactures a wide variety of paint brands and lines beyond SW branded product.I'm not sure how many there are.I do know Pratt & Lambert and Martin Senour are SW owned and produced.I hear of various other products every so often but don't remember them all.I do know that SW also produces specialty products and spray paints for a wide variety of retailers including Ace Hardware branded spray paints (Ace produces it's own brush on products but not sprays).Because SW produces so many other lines it does not have to place SW branded product in retailers stores other than it's own although I have been told this does take place where it is not practical to place a SW store or lines like P&L and MS etc can't be placed in local independent retail stores.

I believe the differences in BM experiences come down to individual business philosophy and attitude.If you have trouble at a BM retailer regardless of what kind of retailer it is go to the manager.Not the head of a paint dept or an assistant manager but the manager as it is possible either that is the owner or the only person in the store with the owner's ear.It is likely the store is locally owned and operated and that local PR can be used as leverage.

If you have a bad experience at a BM retailer and are looking for an alternative and don't have an SW store near you or are looking for local flavor shop hardware stores as many have at least one line that is not store brand,although Ace brand is a good line of paint,and carry a brand that is higher quality.It's a fair bet it's a SW owned brand.

All of the standard statements apply.If you don't like how you are treated go elsewhere.Go where you get good service from knowledgeable saleshelp.If you feel you are being pushed toward a particular product go elsewhere.All lines have multiple quality levels often with similar names.Price often indicates quality.Ask questions and do research.If you feel you've been wronged speak out.

Really both of them are perfectly fine brands with good stores and bad stores. They both make high-end and low-end products. If you stick with the higher end of the product lines, you will rarely experience a product failure. (And their lower-end lines are generally not made or intended for DIY use.)

For the mildly interested, SW owns (among others): Duron, Dutch Boy, Pratt & Lambert, Purdy, Thompson's (boo, hiss!), Minwax, Krylon, DupliColor, White Lightning, Bestt Liebco, Martin-Senour, along with a bazillion random foreign brands. They are also a major producer of auto paints, industrial coatings and epoxies, food-grade lubricants, etc. (I'm surprised they haven't bought a sprayer company yet...)

It is true that the biggest difference between the two (from the buying end) is that BM sells paint to dealers, SW sells paint directly to the end-user. I'm not sure this makes a huge difference in the end experience. It really comes down to the knowledge and service skills of the individual clerk at the time you are buying your paint.

It is an advantage for BM in that their dealers can carry a variety of paint brands, not just BM ones for situations in which a BM product would not be the "best" choice. OTOH, SW has access to a wider variety of products within the company, and there are few situations in which SW doesn't make a coating that would do the job. I would imagine that SW also has more consistency between stores.

SirWired

P.S. I'm also a big fan of the $5 color quarts...

There is one major difference between the brands and the experience with them at retail.It has nothing to do with the product.

BM is a franchised brand.Although it has minor control and say-so over how it is sold it has very little power over it's dealer network because it has no ownership power at all.The business you buy BM from has it's own view of how to sell and market BM product as well as how important it is to them to sell it versus something else.

This is why having a problem with a BM retailer should be addressed with that businesses management and ownership and not with BM nor should an experience with a BM retailer reflect upon BM itself good or bad.

SW has it's own retail business.It's stores sell only SW product.There is a higher likelyhood of SW product knowledge because that's all they sell.At a BM dealer they have to know about everything the stores carries,in many cases not just paint and paint brands.

I would also expect SW to have a much higher level of influence over how those stores are run and if you had a problem there you could go beyond store management to a higher level within SW and get actual results from your attempt.

I agree that product-wise it's all about quality level and also believe that every store down to individual employees is a different experience regardless of brand or company structure.

How you deal with a problem will vary though and it is important to know the differences in how similar products are sold.

Well....that's what I said...

I have used both and love both. My sister in law did some research on this. She went on brand new multi million dollar home tours. She has gone to over 100 different homes that were just amazing she said. All of them used BM paints.

Quotes: "P.S. I'm also a big fan of the $5 color quarts... "

"Sherwin Williams sells colors to go in quart size (any color) for $5.50."

I've noted the above two quotes from earlier posts and I have to ask - what am I missing? I've just bought SW paint on sale for $33 per gal. If I can get any color for $5 per qt, why wouldn't I buy quarts? Is the stuff that's sold by the qt some inferior paint, not SW's own? Do they sell crappy paint too?

Hi Shamrock-Look at their Colors to Go. It is not inferior paint at all. It comes in ALL of their colors, but only satin finish. Hey, I was surprised too. Why was I wasting my $$ at Benjamin Moore with $4.59 for tiny 2 oz samples that only came in certain colors? This is how you learn. I bought the quart, sampled it, then I bought the gallon so my Contractor could paint the whole room. They put me in their computer, giving me an automatic 15% discount EVERYTIME I shop there, plus I got a $10.00 off coupon from the website. What a great deal! Jina

There is one major difference between the brands and the experience with them at retail.It has nothing to do with the product.

BM is a franchised brand.Although it has minor control and say-so over how it is sold it has very little power over it's dealer network because it has no ownership power at all.The business you buy BM from has it's own view of how to sell and market BM product as well as how important it is to them to sell it versus something else.

This is why having a problem with a BM retailer should be addressed with that businesses management and ownership and not with BM nor should an experience with a BM retailer reflect upon BM itself good or bad.

SW has it's own retail business.It's stores sell only SW product.There is a higher likelyhood of SW product knowledge because that's all they sell.At a BM dealer they have to know about everything the stores carries,in many cases not just paint and paint brands.

I would also expect SW to have a much higher level of influence over how those stores are run and if you had a problem there you could go beyond store management to a higher level within SW and get actual results from your attempt.

I agree that product-wise it's all about quality level and also believe that every store down to individual employees is a different experience regardless of brand or company structure.

How you deal with a problem will vary though and it is important to know the differences in how similar products are sold.

no disrespect david but BM has lots of control over their dealers. BM dealers have to be so many miles apart and if a larger chain moves in next to a bm dealer that new store will
not get bm no matter how many stores they have.

BM is an amazing paint but i won;t pay their asking prives for.
their new ovations paint is amazing but i bet lots of stores will not sell it because of the intial setup cost, not your average
dispensing machines and what not.

as far as the multi million dollar home buye. yea why not hire an interior decorator if you have or had that kind of money. seems very very odd.

as far as the multi million dollar home buye. yea why not hire an interior decorator if you have or had that kind of money. seems very very odd.[/QUOTE]

HUH?

I think the sorta/kinda intention was...how would they know it was BM paint? Never have I seen paint brand being advertised as a selling point. But other than that..I didn't get it either.

She was trying to find out what kind of paint these expensive homes used for their paint. She felt if the expensive homes used it that it must be good stuff. The builders said that it was was they preferred. Does this clear it up?

No prob wendans...just never saw anyone who asked..it was always about color.

BM or SWP both good..Heck..for me..since I could GAS less...it could be Joes paint store...

Wife puts on whatever I bring home..as long as the color is right.

The comments concerning BM reflect common franchise regulations/conditions/rules.Just reenforces the fact that unlike SW,which operates it's own stores and sells nothing but SW paint,BM is sold by retailers that own the business and often sell other products and sometimes other paint lines.The process of returns,claims,complaints would be handled differently for these reasons.

The rules mentioned are similar to those of Ace Hardware concerning distance and similar to Scott's concerning Lawn Pro dealers concerning product.

Quotes: "P.S. I'm also a big fan of the $5 color quarts... "

"Sherwin Williams sells colors to go in quart size (any color) for $5.50."

I've noted the above two quotes from earlier posts and I have to ask - what am I missing? I've just bought SW paint on sale for $33 per gal. If I can get any color for $5 per qt, why wouldn't I buy quarts? Is the stuff that's sold by the qt some inferior paint, not SW's own? Do they sell crappy paint too?

The $5 "Color to Go" quarts are meant solely to be color samples; it even states on the can that it MUST be topcoated with real paint (after you have decided on the color.) They don't cover well, aren't fade resistant, and would never hold up to the least little bit of scrubbing. Their sole purpose in life is to give you a better idea of what the color will look like beyond just a little 1" chip.

SirWired

Got it. That makes more sense. Thanks Sirwired.