Motorcycles, Snowmobiles, Go-Carts, ATV's and Golf Carts - Suzuki 1400GL problems

Hello everyone. This might get long but I know a complete description of my problem(s) might help find a remedy. I'm babysitting a friend's 1997 Suzuki 1400GL while she is on deployment. All I was told is it hasn't been started in about 2 years. Armed with a clymer manual and basic engine knowledge this is what I have done:

removed, drained, cleaned gas tank
removed and cleaned both carbs
new spark plugs
bled clutch and brake system
new air filters

After all that the engine would start....sometimes reluctantly but I could get it started. Usually if it didn't start I could drain the carb bowls and it would start right up. While riding there was a small exhaust 'pop' every once in a while and mainly upon acceleration. At idle there was a noticible difference between the front and rear exhaust notes. To me, it sounded like a stuck valve on the front cylinder and when I put a dollar up to the exhaust pipe it wouldn't quite suck it into the pipe but wasn't nearly as forceful as the other exhaust pipe. My thought was the compression release might not be adjusted right. Checked the specs which call for 1.5-2.0mm on the front cylinder and 1.0-2.0 on the rear cylinder. As it was, there was no clearance at all. I adjusted the front to 2.0 and the rear to 1.5mm. Everything is now in specs (concerning compression release) and it will not start. My wife is now seeing faint white smoke from the rear cylinder and I saw a puff of black smoke from the front cylinder the last time I tried it for the day. Also I'm pretty sure I heard a metallic knocking from the front cylinder head when it did 'try to start'. The knock has me quite worried. Does anyone have any insight or thoughts?
Oh, I have put about 5 miles on the bike, it ran very strong but now it seems by adjusting the release I made it worse.

Check the compression in both cylinders with the compression release off. You can get a tester from an auto parts store. Usually they rent those out, depending on the store.

Your compression should be over 130 lbs. If you're OK there, change the spark plugs, and add Sea Foam (from auto parts store) to the fuel and oil. Also in a full tank of fuel add an ounce of two stroke oil or Mystery Oil. You can usually get those at a Walmart or an auto parts store.

With an engine having sit for two years you have a lot of issues that can be a problem. Anything in the fuel system can affect the fuel/air mixture and varnish in the oil can hang up valves. The oil in the gas will help lube things on the first tank full and the Sea Foam will help clean it up.

The knock you heard in the front cylinder could have been something in the valves or it could be a spark knock. The latter would be my first guess. The backfiring can be either an exhaust valve hanging or a slightly lean mixture. Don't worry too much about smoke just yet. Keep it filled with oil, though.

When you get it started and rideable, ride it easy for the first tank full of fuel. Then you should be in good shape. That bike will run hard, but it needs care, too.

Thanks so far. I feel a little better after a nights sleep. Let me address the above issues.

I have a compression tester but don't know if the size/threads are the same size. I'll try that today. How would I 'disable' the compression release? I assumed it was 'disabled' when I had zero clearance at the measuring points.

Spark plugs are new but I will change out for another set. I took them out yesterday and the rear plug looked normal. The front plug was a little dark, maybe a little rich (?) I imagine the carbs need syncronizing.

I'm running sea foam in the tank and really am tossing up the idea of running a small amount in the oil but worry that since this clutch system runs in the engine oil that might be a bad idea for the clutch. I'm at a toss up as to a small amount in the oil and just let it idle then change the oil or what. I would have to get it to start and idle again first though.

I wasn't too concerned about the hard starting cause as you said, after sitting up for so long I imagine some gunk is still working loose in the fuel system and will work itself out.

This new noise sure sounds metallic and that has me worried. Could, after adjusting compression release, that front cyl valve be stuck open now making contact w/ the pistion?

My big issue is this: It was running fine just a little finicky to start, no smoking at all, I attributed the exhaust pop to either normal or related to 'fuel gunk' that would work itself out after a tank or so of fuel. I tried to rule out compression release making the front cyl. valve not fully seat. I still can't figure how setting the compression release to specs got me to where I am now. I wish I had left it alone but thought gee, what could the harm be in adjusting for how it is supposed to be!

Everything considered, try this:

Without changing anything on the compression release, test the compression and post back. If your plugs were new to start, don't bother changing those just yet.

The SeaFoam in the oil wouldn't hurt the clutch if added in the prescribed amount. It isn't a friction reducer, but a solvent to remove varnish.

Having reread your post it sounds like you loosened the compression release, not tightened it. In that case it simply wouldn't hold the valve open as much. Just from what I"m understanding you didn't cause a valve to hit a piston.

A compression release doesn't eliminate compression it just cuts it back. At this point we have to decide if you have enough compression in that bike to get it started, not if it has too much.

If you actually have metal on metal knocking that's one thing but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet.

This won't be much of a reply but I still have daylight left. Today I drained the fuel from the carbs (fuel looked fine) and I think while being frustrated yesterday I ran the tank out of gas.....I'm sure that was a big bit of the problem. So now we have a full tank of fresh gas. My compression tester didn't fit the plug holes but I was able to get 130 compression on each cylinder by holding the end over the plug hole and cranking it over about 5 times with a semi-weak battery. I felt 130 wasn't bad for that. Clymer shows 114 as a service limit and 142-199 as standard. I'm sure if I had a decent seal I would be over 145. That being said I left my battery charger on the wrong setting all morning so I am waiting on a full charge to carry on. I'll post back soon I hope and will try to capture some video/sound too.

I just thought of this and need to address this too. After getting the carbs back on the bike I found I could best start it by giving it very slight throttle even though the book says not to. In fact, by setting the idle via the handlebar cable/throttle, the throttle stop is about 1/8 inch away from the idle stop knob below the gas tank. In essense even with the idle adjustment knob under the tank turned all the way up there is 1/8 gap between it and making any adjustment to up idle. Does that make sense or am I making it more confusing. I'll try to post pics and stuff soon.

The carb thing may just be a cable or throttle adjustment or the cable may be hanging up somewhere. That sort of thing may give you a high idle that will have to be worked out, but it won't keep it from starting.

On the compression, if you're getting 130 without a compression release, it would still run. Since you have the auto comp release and if it is working as it should you have plenty of compression and you don't have a stuck valve, at least one that is stuck open all the time.

For now, though check to make sure you have good spark (bright blue on a grounded plug). I you do and that little beast still doesn't want to start... turn off the fuel at the tank, pull both plugs, spin the engine over a few times with full throttle and no choke. Then drop a teaspoon of gas (no more) in each plug hole, turn the engine over only a couple of times, then put the plugs back in it see if it will try to start. If it does, turn the fuel on at the tank and try it again with half choke, half throttle.

Will be gone tomorrow, back on Tuesday evening. Keep at it good luck.

I really don't think you have a damaged engine, from what I've heard so far, but recheck how you set the compression release on it.

marbobj - thanks, you have kept my head level. So I went out this morning with camera in hand to video the 'difficult' starting. Granted it was probably around 70 degrees outside and maybe mid 60's last night? Anyway, gave it full choke and it started right up. It died, I put it at half choke and it started right up. I did capture video of the startup as well as the sound difference between the front and rear cyl exhaust. It just sounds 'not right' there on the right side.

I couldn't figure out how to drive and capture this but...I'm still getting that popping from the right side (front cyl).

These are the pictures I have right now as well as two videos. One video taken just after carb installation and one taken this morning. I understand the compression release now and might have to give it just a hair more release.

I think the metallic sound I was hearing the other night was what you suspected, spark knock because I let the tank get empty and it was trying to burn varnish.
SO:
If anyone wants to listen to the video from today suzuki1400 pictures by duigoose - Photobucket (http://photobucket.com/suzuki1400) and see if I am just imagining things please feel free. Also, the popping is coming from the right side only.

Got in late and didn't have time to go through all your photo posts, but I believe what you have is a maladjusted compression release.

That compression release is labeled as "automatic", but all parts diagrams for it show a control cable setup for it. From that I suspect it is ultimately controlled by the throttle cable.

Since some of your carb throttle plate positions are off, I suspect it has to do with the external cable control for the compression release. That may be affecting the cylinder that has the pop in it = valve left slightly open during a run.

Did you double check your settings for the decomp?

compression release: front 1.5-2.5mm, rear 1.0-2.0. I set the front at 2 and the rear at 1.

on another note, it seems the more i ride it the more i can adjust the throttle cable down on the handlebars, bringing the idle bump closer to the idle stop. might just need some running time. i added some seafoam to the oil yesterday too.

i was able to somewhat take video today of the 'first start of the day' and the 'short ride down the street' so in someone's leisure check out the photobucket again.

it would help if i could get out and ride it for the day and open it up a little but i am confined to our parking lot.....registration been out since '07 and it ain't my bike. then to top it off, as i am feeling better and better about my work, the hi-beam indicator bulb isn't working......just another day.

Looked at all of your photos on the bike. With your settings on the decomp the compression release would allow the valves to fully close. At zero or less it could hold the valve open.

The exhaust sound difference could be in a valve. Although your decomp setting would allow it to close you could still have something hanging up.

Another possibility would be something in the muffler, but it sounds more like the exhaust valve.

I would give it some easy riding time to see if it doesn't work itself out. However if you do have an exhaust valve sticking open, it could burn itself out over an extended period of running or carbon up between the valve/seat facing. The latter may actually be what you have now. If the setting was zero or less before you reset it that valve may have been ran a long period without closing fully.

Throwing out a thought:

So today I start it up with no problem, do my normal 1 mile or so ride, let it idle for a bit and on a whim touch the front cyl exhaust pipe. The pipe is not cool to the touch but MUCH cooler than the rear pipe which was QUITE HOT. I could rest my hand on the front pipe for several seconds but the rear pipe was DARN HOT (both at the head). In my mind this says either the front is running way rich or the exhaust valve is sticking. I figure this would also explain why I have to adjust throttle open slightly. With no history of the bike I can only imagine it ran this way for some time.
So, if I had to guess, if the exhaust on the front cyl would fully close I could adjust the idle to normal and all would be right in the world. Other than my gentle riding and running seafoam thru is there anything else 'anyone' can think of other than pulling the head......
I guess I could pull the exhaust and see what the valve looked like but then what?
marbobj - i really think your last sentence is the case so what is the remedy....
again - thanks so so much for your help, I haven't been around in a while just because I haven't had much to work on or thoughts to contribute....this is the first motorcycle I've worked on in many many years....

That's quite a difference in temperature in the exhaust pipes.

Both of what you mentioned could cause it. Lower compression = lower combustion temperatures. I just don't know if it could equate to that difference. The richer mixture can may a huge difference, but to be tolerable to the touch, I just don't know.

Another thing could be an exhaust back pressure difference between the two cylinders. And that could be where the extra noise is coming from in the front cylinder = baffle blown out.

I wouldn't advise pulling the head to look at the valves without a solid compression reading to warrant it. The decomp may be where it all lies, though. If it has some carbon under the valve that would explain a lot.

Everything considered, I would advise running it a little before taking anything apart.