Flooring Tile - Tile Installation Issues

I have natural stone tile which was installed when my home was built by a previous owner in 2002. A couple of tiles popped up in my hallway and in front of one of the bedrooms. When I had a licensed contractor come out to fix them, he said the reason the tile had popped up was because the subfloor had not been cleaned and the adhesive was absorbed by the dirt and therefore didn't stick to the tile. The only thing holding most of the tiles to the slab was the grout. He said the hollow sounding tile would eventually pop up too and the whole floor (approx. 1000 sq.ft.) would need to be replaced. When I tracked down the installer, he said he thought there were a number of other things it could be but probably not from installation. It sounds like I am going to be caught in the middle but I really need to figure out the original cause of the problem before I install anything else. Can anyone give me some guidelines to figuring out the problem myself?

You have alot more issues then just a dirty subfloor I believe.

The correct method would be to ensure the current floor joist structure meets or exceeds a deflection of L720. Natural stone also needs to be installed on at least a subfloor that is 1.25" thick consisting of two layers of plywood, THEN a cement board underlayment or similar.

If the tile contractor tiled directly onto the plywood, he is not a good tile setter.

I would have the entire floor torn up and installed properly and to industry standard.

A good tile setter will always ensure it is bonded correctly to the underlayment without voids.

All the things Mark mentioned are valid......but Mark didn't noticed the work "slab" in your substrate description. :D

There may be several things that were not done right. You need to get a pro to inspect and advise.

Jaz

DOH! lol...................

.....been cleaned and the adhesive was absorbed by the dirt and therefore didn't stick to the tile. The only thing holding most of the tiles to the slab was the grout. He said the hollow sounding tile would eventually pop up too and the whole floor (approx. 1000 sq.ft.) would need to be replaced.

I am no actual tile man. I'll make reapirs - but would not risk doing tile work from scratch -not on my pay! Reason?: See the OP! I'm not big on having to go to court, or taking a huge price cut in what you charged.

But isn't it a recipe for disaster say if someone uses thinset directly on wood? Wouldn't the moisture get sucked out of the thinset into the wood and cause loose tile/hollow sound when pounding on tile squares?

I have this at a rental, where I do work for this guy, in his entry foyer. And when I was banging on a door sill, some of the tiles nearby started to come loose :eek:, while other distant ones still make that sort of hollow sound on some of them. Worst ones being closest to the door sill, for people may stomp off their shoes of snow in the winter!(Good excuse to tell the landlord anyway) And I noticed when I pulled up the lone tile that cracked (yes, :eek: again), and stuck it down with some caulk :D [for now, as tenants with rugrat kids who caused stained (probably ruined) carpet all over this nice condo I'm sure do not care], that the thinset was on...I think it was OSB.

Ok..the original installer just came to inspect the broken tiles and said it was because there was moisture in the subfloor where the tiles had popped up. He said it wasn't unusual for this to happen because when the tiles were originally installed 6 years ago they did not have moisture barriers applied before tiles were installed. He agreed there were problems with a majority of the tiles but that it was just something that happens sometimes. Unlucky me. He offered to install new flooring at an "employee" rate. Gee, let me think........not!:madhell:

i know VCT often fails with a slab on grade installation. moisture trying to escape the concrete has nowhere to go and as it pushes up, it eventually de-laminates the tiles and they bubble. Even if they DO use a vapor barrier, there is a ton of water in the concrete during the pour that needs to escape, but the contractors are pushing schedule and never wait the appropriate time for the concrete to dry out.

I would guess that stone breaths more than VCT (not 100% sure about that though). Maybe the problem is with the thinset used? can you get the cuts on the thinset and stone and find out what each of those manufacturers guidelines are? maybe you can find out how soon the stone was applied after the concrete was poured? is the thinset sticking to the tile or the concrete when it fails - that would define the point of failure.

personally, i don't things "just fail". Typically, procedures were incorrectly followed, or incompatible materials were used, or systems were inadequately designed. and as a result, the poor uninformed home owner gets the bill. the tricky thing is that everyone is trying to cover their own. but if you can find that a procedure wasn't followed, or a material was used when and where it shouldn't have - you mayhave some ammo.