Heat Pumps and Electric Heating - Need advice on new HVAC system Trane vs Carrier

We need some good advice about a new HVAC unit. We have had 3 sets of contractors out to give us quotes, each recommending different units: Trane, Carrier and Heil..

Each has done load calculations so I am confidant that the systems will be sized correctly for our load. We should receive the other 2 quotes in the next few days..
Because there is no Apple to apple compare.. I am now looking for advice

We need to heat/cool ~2500 sqft .. ~1300 sqft above grade and ~1200 sqft walk out basement.

Also, I am looking at the Trane home airfilter system.. ie Trane CleanEffects.. is this really worth the $$ as I do have asthma and we have 2 dogs..

From Trane's website:
Climate averages for: CARY, NC
Average days per year above 75: 153
Average days per year below 40: 31
Average high temperature: 89.1
Average low temperature: 39.7

Quote 1:
Furnish labor and materials to remove existing gas furnace and a/c system and install a new HEIL 80% 2 stage variable speed gas furnace. Include a new HEIL a/c coil a new HEIL 13 SEER R-410 a/c unit that has a 10 year parts warranty. Install a new line set for system, install a new Honeywell Focus Pro 6000 thermostat. $5650.00

I would go with a heat pump unless you won't the gas. You are in a good climate so your energy cost will be better suited for a heat pump. I would also go with at least a 15 SEER because it will provide better comfort and cheaper heat and AC. Media filter or the Trane CE will be fine.

So you think a 15 SEER vs the 13 SEER? One of the contractors said that with the TRANE 13 SEER and HP.. would make it a 14 SEER.
Also another contractor said that the TRANE CE is a maintance nightmere and that they have done some recalling of the units. Have you herd anything ?

The 15 SEER with the proper air handler will also qualify for the fed tax credit.

There was a recall on the clean effects collection cells only, that was awhile ago and should have all been changed by now.
Either way, you'll be getting a new one, no problems. There not that hard to clean if you know how, just need to read the instructions. The hardest part is getting the door on and off.

heatrichi

The Fed Govt is paying you to upgrade with more energy eff HVAC up to a $1500 tax credit. It would be a mistake to leave that on the table.

Here would be my recommendations based on your area/climate in order of preference.

1, High eff HP system that qualifies for the tax credit.

2.Dual Fuel system-80% VS furnace paired with matching high eff HP. an 80% with straight AC is a dinosaur especially when the govt is helping pay for upgrade.

3.95% AFUE eff furnace with straight AC.

I can make some suggestions if you like.

I am not a fan of EACs like the Clean Effects. Most homeowners do not adhere to the cleaning/maintenance schedule which is problematic to their operation. I prefer a good 4-5" pleated media cabinet that lasts up to one yr before changeout.

IMO
:)

So Now I am even more confused.. As these 2 quotes are about $1700 off from one another.. Mostly the labor $3,500 vs $5,300... Also what is the difference between R-22 and R410 A refrigerant? I am most concerned with the cooling as we do live in a high temp/humidity region..

Advice? And I have now herd a few times to not go with the CE option..

Here are the quotes that we have received so far:

Trane: with R-22 refrigerant

1) XR13 3.0 Ton Heat pump w/XV80 Variable Speed Furnace- Dual Fuel w/3 - Stage Heating - 14 SEER / 80% AFUE - $6795 including replacing all duct work for the first and second floor -The ductwork ended up coming out right at $3,500.

2) XR13 3.0 Ton Heat pump w/XR80 Gas Furnace- Dual Fuel Set Up - 13 SEER / 80% AFUE -$5725 including replacing all duct work for the first and second floor - The ductwork ended up coming out right at $3,500.

Carrier with R410 A refrigerant
3) Base 13 Base 80 3.0 Ton - 13 SEER / 80% AFUE - $7,778 including replacing all duct work for the first and second floor - The ductwork ended up coming out right at $5,300


4) Comfort 13 Infinity 80 3.0 Ton - Variable Speed 2 Stage Furnace- 13 SEER / 80% AFUE - $8,478 including replacing all duct work for the first and second floor - The ductwork ended up coming out right at $5,300

So there is an $1800 difference in the installation costs

What is the reason for changing the duct work?

What size system do you have now?

Dun... loose he banging head. Pick something else.

I guess you don't think its funny ?

It's like a good joke told too often. After awhile it's not that funny anymore.

heatrichi

I don't care for your quotes.

1.R-22 refrigerant is a mistake-go with R-410a (puron)

2.I don't believe any of these systems qualify for the HVAC tax credit. It would be a mistake to leave that on the table.

3.you are being taken advantage of on your ductwork pricing. ductwork is really relatively cheap.

4.I still recommend a high eff HP system with VS air handler as the best choice for your area/climate. But if you want a gas furnace, then go with an 80% var speed model paired with a high eff HP that qualifies for the tax credit.This will give you good operating costs.

IMO
Good Luck!
:)

Cary, NC.

Why are you not lookinh into GeoThermal? Many, many installations in your area.

heatrichi

as Jarrelsdad recommended, Geothermal would be an excellent choice for your area/climate. Of course you must have the land and also the budget. As a rule of thumb, expect to pay 2 1/2 to three times over conventional HVAC. You could really plot a payback on a geo HP system. Plus I believe the government tax credit is 30% with no maximum. See attached link for specifics.

IMO
:)

Federal Tax Credits for Energy Efficiency : ENERGY STAR (http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3)

Also in NC if on an open well they don't require an injection well. You can pump from a well and dump it in a ditch, pond, whatever.

Hey guys.. My computer crashed a few days ago.. so .. sorry to have been of line for so long..

Tigerdunes.. Why are you saying my duct work is way to much? WE have to replace all of the duct and HVAC as we had an internal Flood.. ie 30,000 gallons of water leaked from the kitchen to the finished basement.. The insurance adjustor poaked a whole in a duct.. and it leaked for days..

GEOthermal.. Not an option.. We have just under 1/3 acre.. and the house foot print has taken most of it :)

I am about to sign on the dotted line for a carrier infinity hybrid

If you are confident in both installers, Carrier makes better equipment IMO. They integrate things much better and make complex systems really user friendly. I really like their T-stats.

So final inspection of the new unit was this week.. I do have to thank all of you for your insights on my questions.. But most of all I had been watching the blogs for a while.. and you have given us great info..

Thank you

Another Happy Customer... Participant in the forums.

I would recommend a Trane. Michigan had a suit against Carrier. We ourselves is dealing with a problem with Sears and Carrier. Over a defective Unit. If you do decide to go with Carrier I recommend you get a free Labor and Parts Warranty and keep one on it because you will have problems out of it. A friend of mine told me we should have got a trane but he told us too late. Good Luck.