Flooring Tile - Slate Tile Over Ceramic Tile

After reading various forums about removing ceramic tile, I told my wife there's no way I'm replacing that foyer floor with slate tile she wants so badly. However, tonight on a visit to HD I asked the floor guy about removing the ceramic tile. He showed me some various heavy duty scrapers, and then took me over to tool rental for a helty hammer. He might as well have given me 22 sticks of dynamite, because this sounds more and more like a project I don't want to tackle.

But, then he assures me that if the ceramic tile is holding down to the original substrate (and it is) that I could go ahead and just use some thinset and put down my new slate floor directly over the top of the ceramic floor. He stressed that the original floor had to be intact and well bonded to the subfloor. The ceramic floor is in great shape. No lose tiles. In fact, I tried to remove a couple of tiles in the closet (inconspicuous place) and there was no way that tile was coming up. The guy who put that down knew what he was doing!

My question is simple. Can I lay the slate tile over the ceramic tile or do I need to get some dynamite?

CaddyDaddy:wall:

Hi Caddy,

Please tell us where you are because you may have found the one person at those stores that actually gave you the correct advice. Beer 4U2 That does not happen very often. :D

Obviously I agree, if all the if's prove positive. Can you tell us how the old floor is installed, wanna know the method, age, thickness etc. Also describe the subfloor system starting with the joists.......

Jaz

JazMan,

Ok here goes the description of the old floor. I'll start with 2X10 joists 16" on center. For the subfloor there are two 3/4" sheets of plywood on top of each other securely nailed to the joists. The tiles are laid on the subfloor with thin set mortar. The tiles are 3/8" thick, 7" hexagon red clay ceramic (dark). The spacing (grout) is about 5/16". The tiles are not very shiny but do have a slight sheen to them. They've been down hard fast since 1986. When I scrub and wash the floor with an ammonia solution they seem to dull a bit.

There is no loose grout whatsoever. There are no loose tiles, although in the middle of the floor there are 2 tiles that are cracked. This cracking was due to the previous owner dropping a 300 lb dresser on the very same spot, thus the crack. I witnessed that event. (Does it sound like I do not want to start chipping away at this project? I love demo work, but this could prove to beyond my physical capabilities)

I was thinking that if I don't remove the tile and install the slate over top that I'd maybe give the floor a muratic bath to etch it. What do you think about that? Would that give the thin set a better hold?

Thanks in advance for any advice. By the way I'm in Lanexa, VA in between Richmond and Newport News. And this guy at the HD is good, he's my lead for my second floor getting carpeted. I have to put my foot down somewhere with my wife, I don't do carpet!

CaddyDaddyBeer 4U2

Hello!

Sounds like you have a solid subfloor from your description. The only downfall I see is that the original tile was not installed a cement board or other membrane, but if it's last this long, there shouldn't be issue.

I never recommend tiling over tile, but it has been done, some fail, some don't.

Lanexa, huh? Is that near Quantico or further south? I lived in Newport News for about 5 years when I was stationed at Langley.

HotinOKC,

Yes, Lanexa is south of Quantico about 1.5-2 hours. It's one of those towns that don't have a major well traveled thoroughfare going through it (except Hwy 60). There's no exit for it on I-64, even though it is in 2 counties (James City and New Kent).

To all who read this thread,

As for the tile job, be easy on any response that even hints at me taking up that ceramic floor. My wife reads this forum, if people say, "not a good idea to tile over existing tile." That means I have to go to work on the demo. Just kidding there. Read on.

I only like to do a job once and it needs to be done right. So, I'll take the advice and remove the old existing floor if enough experts convince me that it has to be done. However, if there are enough experts out there that say this should not be a problem, then I'll more than likely take that advice.

So, anyone that is a tile setter that reads these threads, I mean a professional tile setter, please give me your advice. All responses will be considered. I respect everyones' opinion and their advice.
Fire away if there any other questions or suggestions.

Thanks for any responses and ya'll have a great evening.

CaddyDaddy:coffee:

Seems to me it's pretty well established that this would work. My only concern is the extra height it's going to give to your floor.

Ok here goes the description of the old floor. I'll start with 2X10 joists 16" on center.

Not so fast.:D Whats the unsupported span of those joists? If its more than say 10'or 11', you don't meet L720 for natural stone.

Also, you have been lucky that ceramic tile set directly to plywood has lasted a long time. If its done correctly, it can last a long time, so I'll assume that it was indeed done correctly. You do realize that the installation is only as good as the original ceramic tile bond to the plywood.

So, does it look like I go with a ceramic slate look alike? The The unsupported joists measures about 13 feet. The beams are 9 inches thick (6 - 2X12s) sandwiched. From what I understand and read so far, it does look like that floor isn't stiff enough for slate:thumbdn:.

Question: Whats the best type of thinset for this job if I use ceramic?

Thanks for any response here.:o

CD