Heat Pumps and Electric Heating - XL15 and XV80

Hello,
Is it worthed to upgrade from XV80 to XV95 for extra $1,000.00.

don

when you say Washington, this is DC or PNW?

what is electric rate?

what is your average winter temperature?

post back.

TD
:)

As Tiger said, we need a little bit more info.

If your winters are mild or gas rate is cheap then it may not be worth the upgrade.

But if your winters are harsh like MN (-20), then yes the upgrade is worth while doing, or if your furnace is going to be close to a living space were the burner noise may bother you, then upgrade.

I lived in Tacoma, Washington area. Average days per year above 75 is about 70 days on summer and average days below 40 is 62 days, and below 32 is about 25 days. The rest of the days is around 40-60 F. I'm actually being offered of XL15 &XV95 for $9200.00 or XL15 & XV80 for $8,100.00 with the same installer.
Appreciate your feedback.

This is the cost of natural gas in Washington.
Basic Charge $10.00
148.95 Therms @ $.897148.95 Per Therm
148.95 Therms @ $.34039 Per Therm
So I'm paying $195.00 a month on natural gas using my old furnace, which is not working properly and it's about 18 years old.

is the XL15 a heat pump? If so, no the upgrade will most likely not be worthwhile unless your elec rates are really high.

Yes, XL15 is a heat pump. I just found out that XV95 has a tax credit and XV80 doesn't. This choices becoming difficult. Tax credit right now is $350.00.

don

you live in an area that has a mild winter climate.

here is a quick snapshot of your climate taken from the Trane site.

Climate averages for: TACOMA, WA, 98401
Hot weather Cold weather
Average days per year above 75: 62 Average days per year below 40: 62
Average high temperature: 77.0 Average low temperature: 38.0

the truth is with a properly sized HP, you will rarely use the gas furnace whether 80% eff or 95% eff. the gas furnace though will give you some protection against a breakdown of your HP. you would get better performance/efficiency numbers pairing the XL15i HP with a matching var speed air handler over a var speed furnace. of course, with an air handler, you would need to check your electric service/breaker panel about capacity to handle backup electric strip heat.

I doubt if you would use $250 of gas per season for heating in a dual fuel setup. with a 95%, that would save you about $35-$40/heating season. not a lot of money and clearly not a reasonable payback. keep in mind you are shifting your heating fuel from nat gas to electric.

BTW, what is your electric rate? does your utility offer any special rate for HP heating? I am confused about your cost for nat gas. exactly what is your cost/therm?

just a few ideas to consider. like many big decisions, there are always pros/cons and compromises.

IMO
Good Luck!
:)

don

you live in an area that has a mild winter climate.

here is a quick snapshot of your climate taken from the Trane site.

Climate averages for: TACOMA, WA, 98401
Hot weather Cold weather
Average days per year above 75: 62 Average days per year below 40: 62
Average high temperature: 77.0 Average low temperature: 38.0

the truth is with a properly sized HP, you will rarely use the gas furnace whether 80% eff or 95% eff. the gas furnace though will give you some protection against a breakdown of your HP. you would get better performance/efficiency numbers pairing the XL15i HP with a matching var speed air handler over a var speed furnace. of course, with an air handler, you would need to check your electric service/breaker panel about capacity to handle backup electric strip heat.

I doubt if you would use $250 of gas per season for heating in a dual fuel setup. with a 95%, that would save you about $35-$40/heating season. not a lot of money and clearly not a reasonable payback. keep in mind you are shifting your heating fuel from nat gas to electric.

BTW, what is your electric rate? does your utility offer any special rate for HP heating? I am confused about your cost for nat gas. exactly what is your cost/therm?

just a few ideas to consider. like many big decisions, there are always pros/cons and compromises.

IMO
Good Luck!
:)

Tiger
Our electric rate is $.06 per kwh. By the way, Thank you so much for your input. I think I'd go with XV80 & XL15 HP($8,100) than XV95 & XL15 HP($9,200.00). It's $1,100 difference. What do you think?

.... I am confused about your cost for nat gas. exactly what is your cost/therm?



He is paying $1.24/therm with a $10 fee for having the service.

How are the heating numbers for the XL15i?

don

taking in consideration your extremely low electric rate, my first choice would be the best matching var speed air handler. check breaker panel for capacity to handle backup electric.because of your climate, you would rarely have to depend on a gas furnace backup making it a waste. however, if you just like the idea of nat gas backup, then go with either the XV80 or XV95 depending on price difference along with your budget. keep in mind there may be some rebates available through Trane's spring program plus there may be a tax credit in the expected federal stimulus package for very high eff HVAC. if you do elect a gas furnace backup, tell dealer you want the best matching evap coil that provides the highest performance/eff numbers for the heat pump. yes, the right coil does make a difference.

IMO
Good Luck!
:)

I thank you all for all the help. Your input was very informative expecially for me who has no clue about HVAC. I decided to pick the XV80 furnace and XL15 HP. Total cost with duct cleaning and tax is $9,000.00. Even the installer said that I made the right decision. Many reason:
-Mild winter in western washington. Won't use furnace much.
-The eletricity rate is cheap in our area.
-XV80 is $1,100.00 than XV95.(both variable speed)
-AHRI rate on, EER HPSF and SEER were all the same for XV95 and XV80.
My only concern is the furnace it was installed is manufactured 2007. I feel like it's a lemon.
Donnie

How much was the duct cleaning and what prompted you to pay for that?

Don't owrry about the year it was made.

What did you get for t-stat? I would suggest the Honeywell IAQ t-stat (TH9421)

Also, may not hurt to get the 10 years parts and labor waranty.

I got the honeywell vision pro IAQ YTH9421 tstat. If you buy both furnace and HP (only XL type) the warranty will be 10 years for both indoor and outdoor unit. Normally it's five years for furnace and 10 years for heat pump (functional part)
The $9,000.00 is actually a package deal including tax and permit. Duct cleaning and the honeywell F300 electric Air Cleaner. I decided to get the duct cleaning because I noticed that our house can easily get dusty. I talked to previous owner (They were here for 4 years) said that they have not done duct cleaning. So I figured it's been seven years since last time it was cleaned. Contractor told me that normally the duct cleaning is about $20.00 per register. I have 14 so that would be $280.00.
Hope answer your question.
Also I used the 36 months equally payment with no interest. It would be about less than a $9.00 day.

I would suggest the 10 year labor warranty on the unit if the parts are under 10 year parts.

I would suggest the media filter over the EAC if you don't want to be messing with the cleaning of the EAC every month.

Did you consider the Trane CleanEffects home air filter?

Any recommendations good or bad?