Insulation, Radiant and Vapor Barriers - Should I continue insulating, or am I just wasting time and money?

Here's the deal, I own a condo on the second floor of a two story building. I have a large attic above me which I have access to and free reign over. The building was built in the late 50's and has fiberglass insulation in the walls and in the attic, but it's only one layer thick up there, about 3" thick, probably R-11. Since I have 2X8" joists in the attic and a lot of wires running over those joists, I decided to lay down a layer of 3.5" Certainteed unfaced fiberglass batts. This brought the insulation right up to the top of the joists, right under all the wiring.

Now at this point I could lay down another layer of insulation right on top of the joists and wires, but the question is: Should I?

It's important to mention that heat is provided by a single boiler for the entire building, and controlled by outside temperature. That means that any insulation I do will not decrease costs to me. The only thing insulation will do in the Winter is make my condo warmer, which is unnecessary since I keep my radiator valves turned off since it's too hot here. My main goal in insulating the attic is to keep the heat out during the Summer. I'm sick of the loud air conditioner and I'm sick of it going down to 65 degrees outside at night yet still 79 degrees in my condo if I turn off the AC and open the windows. I figure that insulating the ceiling will stop that super heat from the attic from turning my ceiling into one big radiant heater that will continue to heat my condo all night.

So now I have about R-22 in the attic. Is it worth it to add more insulation? Should I look into something else? I've heard talk about radiant barriers or something like that. Will it be worth it, will it make a difference, or am I just wasting my time? Fiberglass insulation isn't cheap and it's a pain to get it up into my attic so I only want to do it if it's worth it.

FWIW, I went to a calculator website and found that when going from R-22 to R-49 (what's recommended in my area) I would only save about $49 per year in heating costs. If that's true, I assume it won't make much of a difference for air conditioning, correct? Toi lay down another layer of R-11 will easily cost many hundreds of dollars more and be a lot of work, laying down R-19 will cost even more than that and be twice the amount of work getting it up there.

Thanks for the advice!

You should by all means add insulation to a minimum value of R-38 or more for your region.

Adding insulation will increase your comfort and lower your building's joint energy costs and maintenance fees over time....costing you less over the long haul.

The problem with adding insulation at any time, is that there will always be an initial outlay of money just to install the insulation...and then a fixed period where any savings go to paying off the added insulation...before you see any actual dollars spent in reducing your energy expenditures.

But adding the insulation will also make your unit more saleable, so adding insulation is always a good investment.

That said, you can do more than simply add insulation to increase your unit's comfort:

-seal all holes by caulking or using foam insulation around chases, pipes, ducts, wires, conduits etc...that pentrate up into your attic. This can prevent heat loss and energy gain in your unit and can be done for but a few dollars.

You should by all means add insulation to a minimum value of R-38 or more for your region.

Adding insulation will increase your comfort and lower your building's joint energy costs and maintenance fees over time....costing you less over the long haul.
How is that possible???

Heat is controlled by outside temperature, and I don't like much heat as I mentioned, so I turn the radiators off. Airconditioning is provided by wall units powered off of my own meter. Insulating my particular unit won't change the joint energy costs or maintence fees one bit.

No offense, but did you actually read my post or are you just giving a generic response to an insuation question? I appreciate your response and understand that sometimes the same question is asked many times, but I believe my question is different from the rest.


The problem with adding insulation at any time, is that there will always be an initial outlay of money just to install the insulation...and then a fixed period where any savings go to paying off the added insulation...before you see any actual dollars spent in reducing your energy expenditures. That's understandable. But will it take 10 years to get the money back? If so, it's probably not worth it. And money isn't the biggest issue, it's the amount of time that the AC unit needs to be on for (and interfere with my home theatre, what's the use in surround sound if you have a constant AC condensor droning in your ear).

But adding the insulation will also make your unit more saleable, so adding insulation is always a good investment.
That's a non-issue. I'm not looking to sell, and when I decide to sell, I just don't believe that someone is going to look in the attic and say to themselves, "Hey, they put a third layer of insulation down up here so let's offer them hundreds of dollars more for the condo, even tho we don't pay for heat and it will take a decade to recoup that cost". Just not realistic to me, IMO.
That said, you can do more than simply add insulation to increase your unit's comfort:

-seal all holes by caulking or using foam insulation around chases, pipes, ducts, wires, conduits etc...that pentrate up into your attic. This can prevent heat loss and energy gain in your unit and can be done for but a few dollars. I've done all the sealing possible. I've sealed EVERYTHING, including making a "cocoon" of spray foam over every electrical box. There was a lot of air comming from the attic since all the attics are linked together via small spaces around the firewalls and the entire building is "U" shapped so it funnels the wind right up the soffet and thru the attics.

So back to the question I asked originally, how much will more insulation help? If going from my current R-22 to R-49 is only going to save me $50 per year in heating costs (which don't apply to me, just the results from a calculator) what will the air conditioning savings be? And is there a better method than insulation, such as a radiant barrier?

No Don't waste your Money! Heat gain in summer is from Radiant heat All the insulation in the world will not stop it.

No Don't waste your Money! Heat gain in summer is from Radiant heat All the insulation in the world will not stop it.

So should I use some type of radiant barrier, or are my attempts worthless?

Yes a radiant barrier will be your best bet in your case. About 90% of the heat gain in the summertime is radiant heat, so the most effective way to stop radiant heat is with a radiant barrier.

Although insulation will stop radiant heat, when you look at the costs a radiant barrier will be more effective.

Adam

PS: dont use the paint stuff its an inferior product to a good double sided radiant barrier. Also get a laser perforated version so you dont cause any condensation problems which could lead to rot or mold.

Thanks for the reply Adam. Do you recommend any particular brand? Any other tips?

I see a lot of discussions (type, installation, etc.) on all types of insulations, but very little on radiant barriers.

Thanks again!

Here's my suggestion. Any kind of insulation, radiant barrier, etc., is not going to help you that much. What you need to do is improve the attic ventilation in the summer. You can get an attic fan for very little $ and set it with the thermostat down low so it exhausts most of the hot air. Second, get a small quiet AC. You can find good ones nowadays for like $200. After that you should be good to go.

Thanks for the suggestions zoneout.

The attic has good ventiilation as it is. I wish I could do more, but I can't since it's a condo and they don't want anything changed on the outside of the building. I'm on the board of directors and tried to get improved ventilation (such as a mushroom type exhaust fan) before we put the new roof on, but no one else on the board seemed to care. However, all is not lost since the current ventilation is pretty good, and since the attics are partially open to each other, there is actually good air flow that you could feel, in addition to the normal air flow from the soffit vents up to the roof vents.

I'm also thinking about getting a new wall unit for the living room. I need a 12K BTU since it's a large room, I was looking at the LG models for around $500. Do you know of anything that will be quieter?

Thanks!