Doors and Windows - Question about window
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DA59a
12-26-08, 09:39 PM
I was wondering if the Pella 20 series doublehung replacement windows, having tilting and removable windows, since both top and bottom sash can be removed, does this qualify for the total opening?
Gunguy45
12-27-08, 06:19 AM
Are you trying to find out if they meet egress requirements?
Egress is determined by how much free opening you have when the window is opened normally. Manufacturers have them indicated on the size charts for all new construction windows. It takes a pretty big DH window (normally about 3/0 4/6 or so) to meet egress, since you can only get about 1/2 of the whole window opened. Casements can usually be smaller since the whole glass is opened.
Tilting and removing the sashes does not count for egress measurements.
Egress is determined by how much free opening you have when the window is opened normally. Manufacturers have them indicated on the size charts for all new construction windows. It takes a pretty big DH window (normally about 3/0 4/6 or so) to meet egress, since you can only get about 1/2 of the whole window opened. Casements can usually be smaller since the whole glass is opened.
Tilting and removing the sashes does not count for egress measurements.
Macattac
12-27-08, 04:57 PM
What Gunguy says is accurate and you must go by it. Occassionately, an official will make an exception. I've seen it more than once in older cities in the northeast regarding apartment replacements.
Why would they do this? I think it's because they know there are possibly thousands of older living units out there with old sash painted shut, Exterior storm windows that nobody could get past, inoperable hardware etc in sooo many deathtraps, it's better than nothing. Once it's understood that the opening is just too small (and for some reason they forget about casements) they will reluctantly go with the sash removal idea. It's crazy because someone with their hair onfire is not going to say "well let's see... i tilt the sash in 90 degrees....."
It's really debateable because any normal (or bigger) person can get out of a window quite a bit smaller than minimum egress. The real reason for the sizing is so the firefighter can get IN with all of his gear on. Of course this brings up another funny visual when the firefighter finds the window locked "Oh darn, can't get in...i guess i'll get down off this ladder and go try another" "Gee i hope i don't trample these lovely bushes..."
Yeah right! That's what the axe is for. We all know he can't open the casement either from the outside, so again - the axe.
Don't think i'm making light of the issue, and very few codes guys will do this, but it does happen.
Why would they do this? I think it's because they know there are possibly thousands of older living units out there with old sash painted shut, Exterior storm windows that nobody could get past, inoperable hardware etc in sooo many deathtraps, it's better than nothing. Once it's understood that the opening is just too small (and for some reason they forget about casements) they will reluctantly go with the sash removal idea. It's crazy because someone with their hair onfire is not going to say "well let's see... i tilt the sash in 90 degrees....."
It's really debateable because any normal (or bigger) person can get out of a window quite a bit smaller than minimum egress. The real reason for the sizing is so the firefighter can get IN with all of his gear on. Of course this brings up another funny visual when the firefighter finds the window locked "Oh darn, can't get in...i guess i'll get down off this ladder and go try another" "Gee i hope i don't trample these lovely bushes..."
Yeah right! That's what the axe is for. We all know he can't open the casement either from the outside, so again - the axe.
Don't think i'm making light of the issue, and very few codes guys will do this, but it does happen.
Gunguy45
12-27-08, 05:41 PM
Mac, I agree..every Firefighter has either an ax or what I think is called an ingess tool (prob another name for it), when they're trying to get in to a building. Never made much sense about the opening being so they can get in when the windows are prob locked anyway, and that whole window opening will be cleared out when the time comes.
Last time someone told me what egress was meant for was so a trapped Firefighter (with no gear other than his coat, helmet, and air tank) could get OUT of a burning structure. I've worn that stuff and it's not nearly as easy to wiggle through an opening as when yer wearing just jeans and a t-shirt.
Last time someone told me what egress was meant for was so a trapped Firefighter (with no gear other than his coat, helmet, and air tank) could get OUT of a burning structure. I've worn that stuff and it's not nearly as easy to wiggle through an opening as when yer wearing just jeans and a t-shirt.
retired wrench
12-30-08, 05:35 PM
Also think about that fireman trying to get your butt out that window if you are helpless.
Craig 845
12-31-08, 02:18 PM
Macattac, That's pretty funny, the fireman looking for another way in. I like that. Every fire job I've ever seen, the first thing the firemen do is take an axe to your nice windows. I don't think whether it's an egress window or not really matters to them. This also ventilates the fire scene.
The way it has always been explained to me is that the powers that be want to make sure that your 400 lb. aunt Mabel can get out. As far as I know, the 3046 is currently the smallest doublehung egress window allowed. I have yet to see a building inspector accept a removable sash window's total opening for egress requirements.
The way it has always been explained to me is that the powers that be want to make sure that your 400 lb. aunt Mabel can get out. As far as I know, the 3046 is currently the smallest doublehung egress window allowed. I have yet to see a building inspector accept a removable sash window's total opening for egress requirements.