Doors and Windows - Ice inside windows

Hello!

It's -5 outside w/ winds at 26mph gusting to 36mph.

There are streaks of ice inside some of the windows. If I put my hand at the ice location, I think I can feel draft. Though its hard to tell since the glass is so cold.

My questions are these: 1) Why is it that only some and not all sides of the windows have ice streaks. The streaks are start away from the wood/glass edge, leading me to believe there is air infiltration. 2) Would caulking the outside and inside of wood/glass junction help?

Thanks
Vik

If you have wooden windows and they are old, it's likely that they are single pane glass (terribly inefficient) and there may be old cracked glazing putty on the exterior of the window that is allowing the glass to fit loosely in the frame, letting cold air to come around the glass. You'd need to examine the windows from the outside to see if that's the case. Caulking is not the way to properly fix this problem. Window glazing is, and it's only applied on the outside.

It's also possible that your storm windows are not shut, meaning they are not doing a THING to keep cold air out. That is simple enough to rectify. But if your storm windows are old, loose and drafty, they could be part of the problem too.

I have wooden windows. They are double glass. There is no glazing putty on either side of the window. I do see some type of glazing compound in between the two glass panes.

I have no storm windows.

If you have wooden windows and they are old, it's likely that they are single pane glass (terribly inefficient) and there may be old cracked glazing putty on the exterior of the window that is allowing the glass to fit loosely in the frame, letting cold air to come around the glass. You'd need to examine the windows from the outside to see if that's the case. Caulking is not the way to properly fix this problem. Window glazing is, and it's only applied on the outside.

It's also possible that your storm windows are not shut, meaning they are not doing a THING to keep cold air out. That is simple enough to rectify. But if your storm windows are old, loose and drafty, they could be part of the problem too.
Here are photos.

Picasa Web Albums - vikram - Windows (http://picasaweb.google.com/vkaura123/Windows#5282315239528720402)

Picasa Web Albums - vikram - 2008_12_21 (http://picasaweb.google.com/vkaura123/2008_12_21#5282315363299982402)

Wow! how timely, we have the exact same problem (I'm near Chicago). I see you linked to some photos, ours look the same. I even have one where the window's handle is completely frosted over!

The ice is at the bottom of the window. We're worried that it will damage the wooden casing.

The condo is from '91, so about 17 years old at the moment.

Hi Vik,

Sorry to see your icing problem. I've been in the window replacement business for 18 years and live in Nebraska where it's also quite cold and windy right now. So I know what you're going through!

In some cases, ice forms on glass because of the heat loss that occurs around the perimeter of the glass. The bottom of a window will always be the coldest due to the fact the cold air sinks, creating a "draft" of it's own, that is not necessarily air infiltration (from outside). This is not to say that you don't have a draft coming around the glass, just saying it's also a factor in the icing.

The perimeter of a thermo-pane is always the coldest due to the transfer of heat through the spacer bar, which, in older units like you have, is usually a piece of aluminum or steel that separates one piece of glass from another. So regardless of whether or not you have any air leaks, you're likely to have some icing when it gets this cold. I think the brownish colored window you have pictured is a good example of that.

In the other photo, the light grey/white window, you might be right about the air infiltration, just because of the way the ice is spaced away from the frame. Sometimes you see that with steel framed windows where the metal frame actually warms the very edge of the glass a bit, and keeps the ice away. If you wanted to check for drafts, a good way to do that is with a smoking incense stick, or one of those punks that you use to light fireworks. The smoke will make any drafts apparent.

I hate to recommend anyone to caulk their windows up, because typically homeowners make such an ungodly mess with caulking guns. I can't begin to describe the horror stories I've seen where it looks like an angry mob attacked a house with caulking guns and a case of silicone.

100% silicone is usually what is recommended for glass to glass, and glass to wood glazing. Problem with that is that silicone isn't readily paintable, so you need to apply a *very* fine bead of it, and not get much on the painted surface. Cutting the smallest tip you can on the caulking gun is important. Any silicone caulking you use would best be done on the exterior, not on the interior. Contrary to what many people think, clear caulking is not "invisible".

Another option you could consider if you want to seal up small air leaks temporarily is to use some temporary rope caulking, which can be removed without damaging the paint job once warmer weather arrives. DAP also makes a temporary caulking called seal-n-peel which is also not permanent, and can be removed. If you were going to seal anything inside, I'd recommend you use one of these temporary methods, rather than caulk anything permanently with silicone, since silicone DOESN'T come off.

One other thought... the brown window you have pictured, looks like it has a removable interior wood stop. You could also carefully remove this stop, make sure the perimeter of the glass is sealed, caulk it if it isn't, then replace the wood stop. But normally all your air sealing is best done on the exterior of the window.

Hi Vik,

Sorry to see your icing problem. .....
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One other thought... the brown window you have pictured, looks like it has a removable interior wood stop. You could also carefully remove this stop, make sure the perimeter of the glass is sealed, caulk it if it isn't, then replace the wood stop. But normally all your air sealing is best done on the exterior of the window.


Thanks for your detailed feedback.

I tried rope caulk and its been partially effective in that the caulk itself is all frosted and has stopped the ice from forming further.

I'll put this at all other places and then caulk (as neatly as I can) from outside.

Thanks much!

You also want to soak that moisture up as it melts so it doesn't go down inside your walls and damage the wood work. Might be worth you while to look into some additional exterior storm windows or replace those with some good quality guaranteed vinyl like Milgard.

We used to have similar problems around the north facing windows in our current house. We did two things:
1. We reduced the humidity in the house as the temperature dropped by feeding less water to the humidifier, and
2. We put plastics shrink wrap around the window shashes, creating an extra layer of air between the window glass and the inside of the house.

These two togegher did wonder to us, yes there's a bit of light condenstation during coldest nights, however, never again the window ice problem!

Thanks guys for the help.

I tried some rope caulk last night but unfortunately the ice has reformed. The difference is that it is only on the glass (and caulk) instead of the actual wood.

We currently do not use a humidifier. I may look into sealing the window with the plastic shrink wrap in combination with the caulk.

I think I'll have to do a better job winterizing the windows next fall, i.e. seal the window on the exterior.

I called our local window company and he said that the condensation on the window is normal - indicating that the window is doing its job. The bottom typically freezes first because the moisture is attached to the heat, and heat rises.

We're on the 2nd floor of a condo so he said that we get the heat/moisture from the unit below us. He suggested to turn the fan on (air flowing down) to keep the air circulating in the room.

He also mentioned that it may not be worth replacing the entire thing unless we're going to buy a certain grade of glass; I forgot which one, 3-something?

Id make sure the RH in the home is around 30 percent. If it is higher this could be your issue.

I checked the room at it was, 35% RH and 62 degrees. Although this is after we had the fan going for a few hours. Typically, the RH is around 42%.

I'll definitely check the other rooms too. Thanks!

35% is way to high for -5 outside. This is a cause of the condensation.

just wanted to drop a line and say that removing the humidity in the room worked. In the bedroom, we turned on the ceiling fan. However, the kitchen does not have a fan - only the microwave 'fan'. I've been looking for a cheap dehumidifier for a small room to deal with the issue.

Thanks all for the help.

Ventilation in the heating months is the key not dehumidification.