Electronic Alarms and Home Security Devices - GE Simon XT or Concord 4 - project questions

I have been reading this forum for the last week- great resource. So I have a bunch of questions :)

I have downloaded both the GE Simon XT and Concord 4 user and installation manuals and gave them the once over.

The XT manuals are way more user friendly and easy to follow. I understand that the Concord is not marketed to end users etc.

My background is electrical engineering and SW development - So I think I am up to the task - it more a matter of how much time I want to spend doing this :wall: on this "project":

My project ---
Ground floor 2000 sq feet , 4 doors, 2-3 pet immune motion detectors, 6 window sensors, 1 smoke detector, 1 or 2 glass break detector

Basement:1800 sq feet 4 windows , 1 glass break, 1 pet immune motion detectors

Want to add 2-3 X10 light controls
and 2-3 wireless or X10 sirens at various points in the property
1 or 2 wireless keypads by door entries upstairs

Eventually what monitoring via phone so ...
Best Locations of console can be either upstairs spare bedroom or down stairs bedroom where there are phone jacks and it would take an intruder some time to smash it ...

TOTALLY wireless ......

I realize XT and Concord can handle the project both but my concerns are:

Wireless range of Simon XT vs Concord --- especially if console is in basement.
What is the advice here ?

Extra sirens - I want a wireless one in Attic , and others at ends of the house. When the alarm trips there will be multiple sirens to trigger. Can these units trigger additional sirens and how programmable is that -- have not come across that in the manuals?
any advantage using X-10 sirens ?

Key FOB range -- I am in my driveway with Key FOB but console is in basement on other side of the house -- will it be in range?

XT manual makes it look easy to install , while I am a bit lost on the Concord , seems I have to hardwire a key pad and a siren ? - I am not really keen on running wires in my house so if I put the hard wired keypad/siren near the Concord console I have essentially created and all in one setup a la XT

So is there a compelling reason to use the concord ? Quality wise ? better FR wireless range ? I know its way more expandable but the XT has All I would need- I think --- am I missing anything ?

As a First time alarm installer/user any comments on my thoughts /design /assumptions would be welcome.

Thanks in advance
Ken

Go with the Concord. For a place of this size, and multi-story, you will find yourself banging against the limitations of the Simon, really quickly.

MrRonFL,

Thanks for your opinion. Can you quickly list some of the things I would be banging my head against:wall: with the Simon XT.

Ken

PS. Its the engineer in me that "needs the data";)

I have been reading this forum for the last week- great resource. So I have a bunch of questions :)

I have downloaded both the GE Simon XT and Concord 4 user and installation manuals and gave them the once over.

The XT manuals are way more user friendly and easy to follow. I understand that the Concord is not marketed to end users etc.

My background is electrical engineering and SW development - So I think I am up to the task - it more a matter of how much time I want to spend doing this :wall: on this "project":

My project ---
Ground floor 2000 sq feet , 4 doors, 2-3 pet immune motion detectors, 6 window sensors, 1 smoke detector, 1 or 2 glass break detector

Basement:1800 sq feet 4 windows , 1 glass break, 1 pet immune motion detectors

Want to add 2-3 X10 light controls
and 2-3 wireless or X10 sirens at various points in the property
1 or 2 wireless keypads by door entries upstairs

Eventually what monitoring via phone so ...
Best Locations of console can be either upstairs spare bedroom or down stairs bedroom where there are phone jacks and it would take an intruder some time to smash it ...

TOTALLY wireless ......

I realize XT and Concord can handle the project both but my concerns are:

Wireless range of Simon XT vs Concord --- especially if console is in basement.
What is the advice here ?

Extra sirens - I want a wireless one in Attic , and others at ends of the house. When the alarm trips there will be multiple sirens to trigger. Can these units trigger additional sirens and how programmable is that -- have not come across that in the manuals?
any advantage using X-10 sirens ?

Key FOB range -- I am in my driveway with Key FOB but console is in basement on other side of the house -- will it be in range?

XT manual makes it look easy to install , while I am a bit lost on the Concord , seems I have to hardwire a key pad and a siren ? - I am not really keen on running wires in my house so if I put the hard wired keypad/siren near the Concord console I have essentially created and all in one setup a la XT

So is there a compelling reason to use the concord ? Quality wise ? better FR wireless range ? I know its way more expandable but the XT has All I would need- I think --- am I missing anything ?

As a First time alarm installer/user any comments on my thoughts /design /assumptions would be welcome.

Thanks in advance
Ken


-No wireless sirens on Concord (or X-10 sirens)...
-At least twice the RF range on the Concord (however, if you put the XT on the main floor your chances improve).
-You'll run more wires with Concord (keypads, sirens)
-If you go with the XT and put in the basement, the keyfob at the end of the driveway might be iffy...Concord, seen it work may times with no issues.

If the wireless siren issue is your main concern, then XT is the choice. If you can run wire for sirens and a keypad (or 2), go with Concord. Both have RF keypads, keyfobs, and X-10 works on both (except for the siren on Concord). You need a hardwire keypad to program a Concord. Open air range on the XT is 500ft...1000ft on the Concord. Both ranges can be expanded with multiple receivers/repeaters (spendy though). XT programming is easier, but that is a relative term. I've got a video of a chimp programming a Simon. Concord is a bit tougher, nothing that should scare you off though.

Hope this helps.

GEGuy,

Thanks for the quick reply...

So if I understand things correctly after checking the manual I have a few more questions if you do not mind:

Sirens:
Concord - Only supports hardwired speakers/sirens, One connection allows daisy chaining multiple 15W speakers or one interior speaker (7/8 on the terminal). There seems to be another place for Piezo speaker (9/Gnd on the terminal), and another (10/Gnd) for internal siren. -- so there are 3 siren "circuits", none "build in" correct?

Switch Gears: Wireless and X10 sirens
Wireless sirens: once triggered is the only way to turn off via command from console ore removing the battery?
So lets say it triggers ,Intruder destroys Simon console via Louisville slugger--- what will the wireless siren do ?

X10 Siren - same scenario (aka Bat attack), whats the behavior?
Also - IF they cut power to the house, X10 devices will not work , ie siren will not sound - correct ?


Wireless Range:
Concord wins hands down, I think a saw an RF repeater for another $120-- ouch


So based on what the answers are RE: X10 and wireless sirens behavior and taking a quick trip in the attic to see what I can do about wired sirens I can make my decision.

At this poing my gut tells me to go with the Concord and do the wiring and deal with the harder to understand manual and programming, but the lazy part of me wants to purchase a Simon XT system and prototype/test the RF ranges first--- worst case I can return the XT and get the Concord. -- need to think this over....

Again thanks for all of the help - my guess is that you have experience as an installer.....

By the way - what does the Chimp charge for programming the Simon :D

If the wireless siren issue is your main concern, then XT is the choice. If you can run wire for sirens and a keypad (or 2), go with Concord. Both have RF keypads, keyfobs, and X-10 works on both (except for the siren on Concord). Has GE released the X-10 transformer for the Simon XT?

Has GE released the X-10 transformer for the Simon XT?

Just talked to engineering about this yesterday. The problem has been that the vendor making line carrier transformers for GE quit doing them...So they've had to find a new vendor. New vendor has been found, should see product end of January.

In the meantime, the Simon 3 line carrier transformer will work if you don't use the Alarm.Com module with XT....

GEGuy,

Thanks for the quick reply...

So if I understand things correctly after checking the manual I have a few more questions if you do not mind:

Sirens:
Concord - Only supports hardwired speakers/sirens, One connection allows daisy chaining multiple 15W speakers or one interior speaker (7/8 on the terminal). There seems to be another place for Piezo speaker (9/Gnd on the terminal), and another (10/Gnd) for internal siren. -- so there are 3 siren "circuits", none "build in" correct?



Wireless Range:
Concord wins hands down, I think a saw an RF repeater for another $120-- ouch


So based on what the answers are RE: X10 and wireless sirens behavior and taking a quick trip in the attic to see what I can do about wired sirens I can make my decision.

At this poing my gut tells me to go with the Concord and do the wiring and deal with the harder to understand manual and programming, but the lazy part of me wants to purchase a Simon XT system and prototype/test the RF ranges first--- worst case I can return the XT and get the Concord. -- need to think this over....
Concord programming is a breeze (search previous posts)

Again thanks for all of the help - my guess is that you have experience as an installer.....

By the way - what does the Chimp charge for programming the Simon :D

A=Theoretically, you can have 3 "sounders"...Terminals 7&8 are dedicated for speakers (2 max) that will give you alarm sounds. In addition, Outputs 1&2 can both be used for sirens (among other things). You'll also hear alarm sounds out of your hardwire keypads. If you add a voice module to the system, you can also get alarm voice as well as sounds out of those as well.

B=Yes, or wait 4 minutes for the siren time to expire (adjustable in programming.)

Also - IF they cut power to the house, X10 devices will not work , ie siren will not sound - correct ?
Correct, but you do have the option of hardwiring a siren to the XT main unit...

X10 Siren - same scenario (aka Bat attack), whats the behavior?
Clarification...the wireless siren IS the x-10 siren.

Switch Gears: Wireless and X10 sirens
Wireless sirens: once triggered is the only way to turn off via command from console ore removing the battery?
So lets say it triggers ,Intruder destroys Simon console via Louisville slugger--- what will the wireless siren do ?
Keep sounding cause they'll never get a shut off signal (more likely scenario is bad guy will unplug them)