Home, Land, Property Buying and Selling - Buying a remodeled home w/ no permits

Hey all, so my wife and I found a home we really like that has been remodeled with no permits. Items remodeled are: flooring, kitchen(granite, cabinets), addition of a new bathroom (full), relocation of laundry hook ups, new windows/doors, roof, plumbing, new forced air heater, and new sprinkler system. Now we haven't had an inspection done yet, that is our next step. The seller states he has paperwork for everything that was done by a licensed contractor, so assuming the craftmenship is good what are the risks of buying such a home? How hard would it be for us to get permits? What could happen if we don't get permits?
The property is located near Los Angeles. Any idea what the cost range is for permits? ($500, $5000?)

Thanks

if the work was done by the homeowner permits may not have been necessary, if the work was done by a contractor then yes permits most likely should have been issued. you will need to talk to the local zoning/permit office to find out if you need to obtain any permits now. hopefully your inspector can tell if this work is properly completed.

life begins when the kids leave home and the dog dies.

Building Codes, inspections, and permits exist to assure safe homes for families. The issue is safety. Buying a property where there have been improvements without permits can affect your homeowners insurance.

Many towns will not issue retroactive permits on homes where improvements were made by previous owners without permits and required inspections. Other towns will work with you to make sure the home is safe.

You can negotiate an 'as is' price, taking into consideration the cost of having to tear out walls or other work and do your own remodeling with proper permits and inspections. Or, depending how badly sellers want to sell, they may be willing to take on getting the house inspected by the local building inspector and make the permitted repairs themselves or hire a mutually agreed upon contractor who will get the proper permits and have the inspections done. Either way, the seller is responsible for paying for the repairs.

Your questions should be put to the local building inspector. You do want to buy a home that meets safety requirements and required construction methods. Often building inspectors can require homeowners to tear out work that has not been properly permitted and inspected. Sellers are legally required to disclose unpermitted work. Savvy buyers pay a visit to the local building inspector's office to see if improvements were permitted and inspected. Buyers want safe homes that have been propertly permitted so that they can pursue homeowners insurance to protect their investments in homes.

Building codes and permit requirements tend to vary from area to area. New cabinets and countertops and flooring typically do not require a permit, unless kitchen remodel include changes in electrical and plumbing. Typically, any changes in structure and electrical and plumbing require a permit. If new doors or windows require no change in structure, then no permit is needed. A new roof requires a building permit.

Costs for permits tend to vary from area to area and are based on the total cost of the project. Your local building code office can provide you with this information.

If you pursue the purchase of this property, hire a good real estate attorney to make sure all your bases are covered.

in my area, permits would be required for much of what was done and my area is generally more lax than any place in California.

If the builds are discovered (and they most likely will be) there would be hell to pay. Well, not hell but the building department. Almost the same thing. If it is not a structural, plumbing, or electrical work, you may get off easy and simply have to pay for the permits. (plus maybe a fine)

If it is one of the 3, they may require tear out to inspect, if necessary and even an engineering approval in some situations.

I would suggest your best bet would be to make the offer contingent upon the seller clearing all non-permitted work as needed with the building department at their expense. It may be not too bad or it could be quite expensive.

as twelvepole suggested; a good attorney would be a great idea in this deal.

Look,a "licensed contractor" would know all about what permits were needed and would not do the work without them so that blows some of what you were told out of the water or at least means they hired a really stupid contractor which is just as bad.

You need a really good full inspection by someone completely seperated from all this so there is no fudging the results even with opinion.Do not use an inspector that has any remote connection to anyone else involved.Tell the inspector what is going on.

You should realize that this paints you in a corner in a sense.Either you tell the authorities in your area and face what they decide has to be done about it or risk not telling them and facing what happens if this ever becomes known.

A "contractor" that does work without permits is shady.Face that right now.If you inform your local people that there are no permits they will persue the contractor as well as you.That means whoever this is probably has done this before and will try to lay it all on somebody elses shoulders namely you.

I agree that a good attorney needs to be involved.But personally once I knew what you know I'd look for another home with no issues like this.

Buying a property where there have been improvements without permits can affect your homeowners insurance.

I can't see how. Unless the seller outright admits to doing unpermitted work, how would anybody, insurance agent included, be able to tell what might have been done in the past, and whether a permit would or would not have been needed then. I've owned ten houses in 7 states over the last 35 years, and have NEVER been asked about unpermitted work. Nor have I ever seen a seller's disclosure statement that asked about it.

I think there certainly would be a risk factor with insurance on a house altered or renovated without permits or any other required procedures,code compliant work etc.

Suppose you had an event like fire take place and during the aftermath it became known that the house had been renovated without permits.Do you think the insurance company would just pay the claim without challenge?

Do you think that the investigative process after a fire or similar would never figure out that the house had been renovated and make some effort to determine by whom and through what actions?

Obviously you might get lucky and it never be found out.I don't expect an insurance company to ask you for permit proof ahead of coverage but filing a claim after a major event is very different.

Here in Philly, the plumbing (all), roof and sprinkler system would have required permits and inspections at a minimum.

As an inspector, every time I come across amateur or unpermitted work , I inform the client and let them know that there are/may be code violations (maybe even some hidding behind sheetrock) and that if they don't have the permits done now, they are inheriting the responsibilty for all such items including fees (and possible fines) for permits, corrections to the work, and possible insurance ramifications.

In short, it is a really bad gamble to accept a home with modifications that do not have the proper permits. I agree with the poster who said that a truly reputable contractor would know what permits an inspections were required and have those completed.

Joe,

How can you get permits for work already completed, or am I reading your response wrong?

Joe,

How can you get permits for work already completed, or am I reading your response wrong?

they issue the permits to make the install legal. They then inspect whatever they want/need so they can issue the proper closing paperwork.

In most jurisictions, they can actually order a demo of the illegall work but usually just charge for the permit, inspect it and sometimes fine the HO and all is well.

In many locales they charge double for permits taken out after the fact. How much they make you change or undo is pretty much the inspector's call.

Thanks for the responses. I figured if they allowed permits after the fact, it's all just all about a money/tax thing.

Now, they could only fine, order demo, etc the HO IF they knew that current and actual HO did those changes?

Now, they could only fine, order demo, etc the HO IF they knew that current and actual HO did those changes?pretty much but when a home is built (at least around my area) a print is submitted with the application. Anything that doesn't show up on the print better have a permit for it.