Insulation, Radiant and Vapor Barriers - New insulation and colder upstairs!

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katiec
12-07-08, 03:40 PM
I have a story and a half that the upstairs was remodeled incorrectly and I am trying to correct it has had issues with condensation and drafts. I hope that I have stopped the condensation that resulted in brownish water running down my knee-walls and ceiling...but there is frost on the nailheads and the large roof fan with thermostat and humidistat keeps going off even in the middle of the night when it is below freezing outside (and I have them set very high so as to see if it will stop going off all the time).The drywall ceiling is attached directly to the rafters and as far as I can tell has fiberglass insulation between it and the roof (between ceiling rafters). I added fiberglass insulation to the attic side of the knee-walls (in stud walls) - then built out another 8" and filled it in with blown-in cellulose (on top of which there are fiberglass bats that extend up to the sloped roof. The floor of the attic has R35 bats from the knee-walls towards the roof/floor point - but not all the way. The point at which the floor meets the roof - the roof extends another 3' forming long eaves (roof only - no space/air) - but there are some open cracks along this joint. I left them open for now to provide some ventilation through them - and it also got to cold to fill them in from the exterior. The bathroom vent is a flexible tube that travels through the floor and out the side of the house - and hopefully will be replaced by a straight stack through the roof next spring. For now, the fan housing and tube has insulation around it and I caulked and sealed a board over the hole in the attic floor to avoid and leaking air from the fan/tube. I added gable vents where possible and a large roof fan on the larger side (attic split in two halves) - with a wall fan in the other side. I have gone through the house and tried to caulk all possible leaks to the walls and attic. The upstairs still can get down to 30-40 degrees if I don't keep the heater on...

What else can I do to help with the cold air coming in/heat loss and condensation that I am experiencing?

Any suggestions will be appreciated! Thank you!


Just Bill
12-07-08, 04:14 PM
You have more than a few issues to deal with. You may have added insulation, but insulation added incorrectly can cause more problems that it solves. During the winter, there should be no humidity in the attic. If there is humidity, it is coming from the heated house space, exhaust fans must exit to the outside. And there needs to be attic ventilation, soffit/ridge vents, gable vents, or something. Vapor barriers should be toward the heated side of the wall. DO NOT block vents. If there are knee walls, there needs to air flow from that space to the attic, foam chutes keep those vent spaces open.

Likely lots I missed, hope others will chime in.

Bud9051
12-07-08, 07:14 PM
Hi Katiec, first, it wasn't clear from your description if you have soffit vents that allow cold air from those large overhangs to enter the attic space behind your kneewall. Then that cold air needs a one to two inch gap above the insulation in the slope to get to the top attic, which should be where your gable vents and exhaust fan force warm air outside.

Do you have just one knee wall, or one front and one in back?
Is the roof fan over the knee wall roof or over the top attic space. I guess I'm having trouble figuring out how your upstairs is constructed. Pictures would help.

Are there any vent pipes passing through the side attic/s? They are often a large source of leaking air.

The frost on the nail heads is a clear sign you still have moisture entering that space.

Let us know if pictures are possible. photobucket.com is one I remember where you can post pics and then copy the link over here.

HH
Bud


d00bs
12-07-08, 08:14 PM
You didnt say if you sealed/blocked the kneewall/floor junction with anything other than fiberglass batts. Remember that fiberglass will not block air at all. If the floor joists leading under the kneewall are open its a source for huge heatloss/moisture issues. The escaping air from the 1st floor below gets into the side attic and will then travel up the sloping ceiling fiberglass batts to the top attic. The frost on nailheads in the side attic shows that you havent sealed that space correctly.
Friction fit 2 inch thick cut blocks of pink XPS foamboard into each floorjoist space at the kneewall/floor junction and the foam around it with sprayfoam. Once this is done you can the lay the batts back down. How do you get into these small side attics? Did you weatherstrip and seal the access door correctly?
I have a cape too and found this link to be really helpful. I'd do everything that applied to my house IMHO.
Beauty and the Beast Upstairs (http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/95/950309.html)

katiec
12-10-08, 05:12 PM
Hi Katiec, first, it wasn't clear from your description if you have soffit vents that allow cold air from those large overhangs to enter the attic space behind your kneewall. Then that cold air needs a one to two inch gap above the insulation in the slope to get to the top attic, which should be where your gable vents and exhaust fan force warm air outside.

Do you have just one knee wall, or one front and one in back?
Is the roof fan over the knee wall roof or over the top attic space. I guess I'm having trouble figuring out how your upstairs is constructed. Pictures would help.

Are there any vent pipes passing through the side attic/s? They are often a large source of leaking air.

The frost on the nail heads is a clear sign you still have moisture entering that space.

Let us know if pictures are possible. photobucket.com is one I remember where you can post pics and then copy the link over here.

HH
Bud

The two sides of the attic run along the length of the house. There are no soffit vents - the only ventable spaces are at the ends of the house. The bathroom fan was able to vent out the side of the house only by going through the floor (any higher and you hit the roof). I'm afraid that the bathroom vent is expelling the moist air outside through the vent but then it is getting trapped under the sloped soffit and re-entering through cracks that didn't get caulked in time (too cold now). In the spring I can put in a straight vent up through the roof - but for now I might have to see if I can't get that warm moist air to travel past the roof/gutter so it doesn't travel back up to the house. I will have to see if I can get back into the other side and see if there is the same moisture issue - then I might know if the bathroom vent on the one side is the problem.

Thanks for the info!