Humidifiers and Dehumidifiers - True Steam Installation Problem

Ive installed a Honeywell True Steam 6 gal unit to my Carrier 58STA090 furnace.

With the help of several friends and my step brother who are all HVAC pros, I've wired up the unit according to the wiring diagram. I am using a manual thermostat which is installed in the return. I also installed a RP50 Current Sensing Relay to the humidistat.

The problem I am having is that when I turn on the humidistat, my A/C condensor kicks on.

I had my brother over most of the day yesterday trying to figure this out and at one point, we called Honeywells Contractor Help Line and all they told us was "there is a wire crossed somewhere." We checked all the wires and re-wired it again. (Ive re-wired it so many times I could do it in my sleep now) and again, the A/C always kicks on. I flipped the DIP switch #5 to on (you're supposed to turn it on when using an AFS) and the unit started working appropriately and continued to do so all night.

This morning, I went down to tuck in the wires and replace the cover to the humidifier. After I did that, the A/C started kicking on again. I again, re-wired everything with brand new wire and still the same problem; I turn on the humidistat, the humidifier starts running, but then my A/C alwys kicks on.

Im at my wits end and after talking to several pros, they are stumped too. Other than my brother, I have not had anyone else out here. I really dont want to pay for someone to come out because Ive talked to all my HVAC friends.

Can you help me with this problem? When I turn the humidistat off, unplug the humidifier and reset the furnace, everything returns to normal.

I have this thermostat, if that matters:

Buy Honeywell PRO 4000 Programmable 1 Heat/1 Cool Thermostat | Honeywell TH4110D1007 (http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=honeywell_th4110d1007&product=100977&category=550)

Thanks,

Johnie:wall::wall::wall::wall:

What letter from the TrueSTEAM are go to where and what letters there.

For now, turn off the breaker for you A/C till we get this figured out.

True Steam Furnace

R connected to R
C connected to C
GF connected to G

I have an RP 50 relay attached to the white cable coming off the fan and that is connected to one side of the Maunal Humidistat.

Conversely, the humidistat with the relay inline is connected to the 2 HUM connections on the True Steam.

I had the humidifier working with DIP switch 5 ON. Now it doesnt matter what setting its on.

Thanks again,

Johnie

Is there any wire on Y at the furnace?

Do you have A/C? If so, where are the two wires from the unit outside go to?

Yes, the Y and the C are connected and run out to the A/C Condensor outside. There is nothing connected from the True Steam to the Y on the furnace.

Humm...

Is there only one wire on Y or two?

There is only one wire to each terminal on the furnace except for the ones with wires from the True Steam.

"Hmmm" - I've gotten that response alot. It all just doesnt make sense.........

Where is the Y wire from the t-stat go to?

Good question, I only remember one wire going to the Y because we took it off Friday to see if that made a difference. It didnt; the fan kept restarting a running like it did when the condenser ran.

I am a firefighter who's on duty today so Ill have to get back to you in a couple hours. I have a friend running over to the house to check to see where that T-stat wire goes.......

Thanks for your help.

Johnie

Sounds good.. We'll be here when you post back!

Thanks, I see you are from MN........Go Bears!! hehe

LOL

I am not a sports nuts, so who ever wins, is good for them!

I was down Chicago last summer for the first time, and reunited with a long lost cousin.

Fun city to visit, but not sure if I'd want to live there.

The Y from the T-stat connects to the Y terminal and there is another wire that runs out out to the condenser from the Y terminal. So, there are 2 wires connected to the Y terminal.

There is 1 common wire that is also connected to the condenser.

Thanks,

Johnie

BTW, I live about 60 NW of Chicago near the WI border

Ok...

You said in earlier post that the A/C still ran when you removed the Y wire going to the unit outside, Correct?

For kicks, I would remove the Y wire from the t-stat.

If that still runs the A/C, then put the Y's back on, and undo the C wire going to the unit outside.

I stand corrected. We removed the common that went out to the condenser and I cant remember if the condenser ran or not, however, the fan continued to stay on like it was calling for the AC.

If the humidifier is calling for humidity, it will turn on the furnace fan to add humidity into the home.

But why is the condenser kicking on then? With the relay in place, the humidifier should only be kicking on when the fan is running; which it was doing when it was working properly.

Are you sure g from t-stat is going through humidifier. If g from t-stat goes to heat pump first you can get back feed through some stats. Condenser will run;)

I also installed a RP50 Current Sensing Relay to the humidistat.
Is this the correct model # of the relay? This is wired into the low voltage "C" line as shown in the drawing of the install manual of the TrueSteam?


the humidifier should only be kicking on when the fan is running; which it was doing when it was working properly.
Read page 14 of the install manual about the G/GF wire hook up.

Are you sure g from t-stat is going through humidifier. If g from t-stat goes to heat pump first you can get back feed through some stats. Condenser will run;)

Milk, this is not a heat pump set up.. Just a regular gas fired furnace.

okay is g from t-stat going to furnace?

Are you sure g from t-stat is going through humidifier. If g from t-stat goes to heat pump first you can get back feed through some stats. Condenser will run;)

As far as I know, G is hooked up to the T-stat and then I hooked up GF from the humidifier to G on the furnace. Because I dont have a thermostat that monitors humidity, I did not have G from the T-stat hooked up to GF on the humidifier.

Should I take the G off the furnace that goes to the T-stat and hook that up to GT?

okay is g from t-stat going to furnace?


yes. g is going from the t stat to the furnace as far as I know.

This is the T-stat I have:

http://www.ntsupply.com/files/products/4110_install.pdf

The C is not hooked up from the T-stat to the furnace per installation instructions. The only wires on the C are from the condenser and from the humidifier.

on page 13 you are suppose to go from t-stat g to gt then gf goes to furnace. Please verify with your manual.

on page 13 you are suppose to go from t-stat g to gt then gf goes to furnace. Please verify with your manual.

Well that may be the problem then. I do not have it hooked up that way as I thought because I dont have a humidity sensing t-stat, I wouldnt need to hook it up that way.

if you have gf to furnace also when humidifier calls for humidity it will energize g on furnace and t-stat which can back feed through stat back down to y making condenser run

yep, Milk is right. G from t-stat needs to go to GT on the TrueSTEAM, then a new wire from GF to G on the furnace.

Did you read my question about the relay?

if you have gf to furnace also when humidifier calls for humidity it will energize g on furnace and t-stat which can back feed through stat back down to y making condenser run

Will the humidifier call for humidity? I have a current sensing relay hooked up to the humidistat in lieu of the AFS so that the humidifier will only run when the fan is running.

Is this the correct model # of the relay? This is wired into the low voltage "C" line as shown in the drawing of the install manual of the TrueSteam?

Sorry I missed that question. Its a Aprilaire RP50 current sensing relay that I got from a HVAC buddy of mine. I did have it hooked up to the C when the AC started kicking on. My brother who is also a HVAC tech hooked it up to the humidistat.

I will hook the relay to the C as in the diagram and then run G from the Tstat to GF. Hopefully that will do it?

they call for afs because if you have defective blower motor that is drawing amps but not spinning it can let humidifier run and cause water damage. Best to stick with honeywells spec:)

Remember a defective motor can draw current and not run. sensing relay will think its running

Removed double post to advoid any confusion.

looks like g from stat to gt. Just really look at manual to verify. Honeywell knows best.

Remember a defective motor can draw current and not run. sensing relay will think its running

Where can I get a AFS then? My local distributor says he doesnt sell them anymore; "They are old school and there is no need for them anymore with the new furnaces out there."

what state and city are you in

what state and city are you in

I live near Fox Lake, IL in Volo. Zip Code is 60073

not sure I am in MD. I would call honeywell or I am sure you can get on-line.

Guys, thanks for the help, where can I send you some beer? I'll let you know how it works out tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Johnie

no prob...............................

Its a Aprilaire RP50 current sensing relay that I got from a HVAC buddy of mine.
That is the wrong relay....

That relay is used for 120 volt, not 24 volts.. You want the A50 instead.

Guys, thanks for the help, where can I send you some beer? I'll let you know how it works out tomorrow.

I don't drink beer... I'll take a Coke instead!

That is the wrong relay....

That relay is used for 120 volt, not 24 volts.. You want the A50 instead.

I have the 50. The 51 is used for 120 volts.

I have the 50. The 51 is used for 120 volts.

:wall: I am not used the RP50, I am aware the 51, and just had the numbers mixed up.

:wall: I am not used the RP50, I am aware the 51, and just had the numbers mixed up.

LOL....no problem. Thanks again for you help. Ill let you know by 10 am if it worked

Sounds like a plan.. I'll check in before I go into work at noon.

ITS FIXED!! It was the G from T-stat to the GT on the True Steam that did the trick.

I did however have to keep the relay hooked up to the humidistat instead of to C. The humidifier would not shut off with the relay hooked up to C.

Thanks again for your help. I owe you guys big time!

I did however have to keep the relay hooked up to the humidistat instead of to C. The humidifier would not shut off with the relay hooked up to C.

Was the humidistat calling for humidity or not? If it was calling for humidity, then yes, it's going to run and run the fan till the set point is met.

Was the humidistat calling for humidity or not? If it was calling for humidity, then yes, it's going to run and run the fan till the set point is met.

Well I assume because the fan continually runs and the humidistat is set at 60% (air temp over 20 degrees) that the True Steam is controlling it. I am in a new tight house and I am curious if the True Steam will eventually pump in enough humidity to be sufficient and so that it will shut down. Right now, the only time it is shutting down is right before the burners kick on.

The other thing too, I have the humidistat mounted on the return. Being that its in the basement, will it give off higher humidity levels than what is actually in the upper 2 floors? I have a "weather station" on the 1st floor that has read 39% RH indoors all day and it has not gone up even though the fan has been running all day.

Added: Just spoke with my wife, she said the fan has stopped running so I now assume the humidifier has caught up.

Well I assume because the fan continually runs and the humidistat is set at 60% (air temp over 20 degrees) that the True Steam is controlling it.
60% is awful high..... 35% is good with your temps now.

I am in a new tight house
They put in an 80% furnace in a new house? MN, they do not allow 80% in new homes, it must be 90+%


The other thing too, I have the humidistat mounted on the return. Being that its in the basement, will it give off higher humidity levels than what is actually in the upper 2 floors?
As long the hole on the back is cut out into the return, it's going to read the humidity reading in the duct, not the basement. IN the return, it's going to get an avg reading though out the house.


I have a "weather station" on the 1st floor that has read 39% RH indoors all day and it has not gone up even though the fan has been running all day.
It may take some time for the humidity to "soak" into the wood works, and other object in the home.

60% is awful high..... 35% is good with your temps now.

The humidistat wouldnt kick on unless I had it up to 60%


They put in an 80% furnace in a new house? MN, they do not allow 80% in new homes, it must be 90+%

In IL, you have the option. The builder wanted an extra $1500 to install a 90%. It wasnt worth the cost or the benefit. I'll put in a 90% when this one craps out.


As long the hole on the back is cut out into the return, it's going to read the humidity reading in the duct, not the basement. IN the return, it's going to get an avg reading though out the house.

Thanks! Thats the way I have it.


It may take some time for the humidity to "soak" into the wood works, and other object in the home.

That makes sense. Thanks again!

It may take some time for the humidity to "soak" into the wood works, and other object in the home.

Or you can bring the truck and hose down the house a tiny bit!