Indoor Pest Control - Moths mysteriously appearing on ceiling

For the past seven days in a row, moths have been appearing on the ceiling of my den/computer room. I vacuum them up and they reappear--Lazarus-like--on the ceiling more or less in the exact same place (near my ceiling light fixture). Needless to say, this is becoming very disconcerting and I don't know how they got there or where they are hatching from (I suspect the light).

They mainly appear in this room only, although I have vacuumed a few stray ones just outside the room. They don't fly away when I vacuum them, so they are easy to kill. But their appearance every day is driving me crazy. I notified my property management 24 hours ago and still haven't heard back from them.

I don't store food in the room and I only temporarily store my work clothes there until it's time to dry clean them (usually once a week). I've been here 10 years now and have never experienced a moth problem until now. I did experience rodents in my ceiling, as documented here:

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=197875

Incidentally, my upstairs neighbor's kitchen is directly above mine, and I do know she store lots of food in plastic bags out in the open on her kitchen floor--I remember because if you read the above thread you will see that she had a bad mice infestation in her unit a few years ago which resulted in the scratching noises in my ceiling. I wonder if this has anything to do with the appearance of moths in my one room which is directly below her kitchen.

Anyway, there are no signs of moths in my kitchen or in my cupboards. No larvae as far as I can see, and no webbing. What kind of moths are these, and why are they appearing every day, motionless on my ceiling near the light fixture? I've enclosed a picture to help identify the kind of moth:

http://members.shaw.ca/asmack/moths.jpg

Any idea what kind of moth they are and how I can get rid of them?

If upstairs neighbor hordes grain products, it's possible that these are pantry moths that have found a way into your apartment via openings in ceilings at light and electrical fixtures. Moths, of course, are naturally attracted to light. As the office is likely lighted in evenings when you are on the computer, the moths gravitate toward the light. Although an occasional moth does enter the home through an open door or window, it usually gets swatted before it has a chance to lay eggs.
http://www.whatsthatbug.com/images/meal_moth_frankie.jpg
Indian Meal Moth - Photo Credit: What's That Bug?
Aerosol insecticides can be used to eliminate moths. There are sticky traps available. Of course, old-fashioned swatting can be used, but moths often leave a smudge on surfaces.
Keep an eye on your pantry and cupboards. Store all grain products in air tight containers. Do not overstock. Let the local grocery serve as your pantry. Clean and organize cupboards on a regular basis. Be ever vigilant for larvae (small worms) and webs and inspect grain products. Eggs and larvae of pantry pests are brought home in grain products like rice, pasta, cereal, flour, meal, dog food, bird seed, etc. A regular perimeter spray of residual insecticide along baseboards and interior trim around doors and windows where moths can lay eggs in cracks and crevices can help keep insect pests at bay. Sticky traps can be placed in cupboards.
Clothes moths are not attracted to lights. They are weak fliers. They like to hide, especially in closets, where they lay eggs and larvae feed on soiled clothing, especially woolens.
http://www.bugclinic.com/Webbing%20Clothes%20Moth.jpg
Photo Credit: The Bug Clinic
Read about clothes moths here: http://www.bugclinic.com/clothes_moths.htm
You say that you do not store food in the room, but do you have dried flower arrangements or wreaths in the home that could be a source of larvae and moths. Bird seed? Pet food? Just doublechecking here to rule out any potential source of pests in your apartment.
Most multi-family rental dwellings do not have an exterminator program where the pro comes in on a monthly basis and sprays to keeps pests at bay. You can DIY with residual insecticide spray or hire a pro. When sharing walls with neighbors, you are subject to invasion by whatever insect pests that they may have. These often include roaches, bed bugs, body lice, fleas, carpet beetles, pantry pests, and others. An integrated pest management plan that includes good sanitation and frequent inspection of the premises and monthly residual insecticide spray is the best line of defense. Puffing boric acid into electrical outlets and other openings in walls and ceilings is also helpful. Spraying window sills and door thresholds also provides a line of defense. Seal openings underneath sinks around plumbing with spray foam insulation. Caulking along baseboards and interior trim blocks hiding places where insects can lay eggs.
It is doubtful that you will get very far with management because of the sighting of moths. Management will not likely go into the upper neighbor's apartment and tell her that she can not store and stockpile grain products. And, it is likely that management does not have a clue about pantry pests or moths. Your pest line of defense if self-defense. Should roaches become a problem, then management is more likely to take some action. Maybe not.
A couple rentals back, I moved into a roach infested little house. The landlord refused to have the pet poo carpets cleaned and disinfected. I had the carpets done before I moved in. I got up in the middle of the night the first night there to go to the bathroom and turned on the lights. The place was crawling with roaches. A call to the landlord was useless. I called a pro. Everything was sprayed inside and out. Boric acid powder was puffed into all nooks and crannies. A gel insecticide was placed on cabinet hinges. The landlord refused to replace the deteriorated refrigerator seal. I called an appliance repair person to replace the seal. When he removed it, roaches ran everywhere. This was while the exterminator was there. The dated kitchen stove where dials were behind a glass front also encased dead roaches. The applicance repair person pulled out the stove and took it apart. The roaches ran everywhere. I paid for a monthly insecticide maintenance program inside and outside the little rental house. It sat among several little rentals owned by the landloard. The exterminator said that if I did not keep up the exterior insecticide barrier that the roaches would cross the yard from the other structures and enter mine. The point is that you do not necessarily have to share walls to be affected by neighbors pests. They can be across the yard.
For proper identification of the type of moth you have, you can collect some samples and take to a local exterminator for identification. With proper identification, you can make a more informed decision re: your next line of defense.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

For the record, I store all food products in plastic, sealed containers. I eat out a lot and don't do much cooking. Perishable garbage is usually stored in the freezer until it's time to take out the garbage. This probably sounds a little paranoid but I do these things because I did live in a mildly roach infested apartment many years ago. It wasn't as bad as yours, and I did have a good property manager who sent the pest control guys in right away.

I currently own my townhouse and am not renting, so the property management should be taking care of this. I pay a monthly condo fee. So far, still no reply, and it's been over 4 days now. The current property management company is not as responsive or as empathetic compared to the last one we had. :(

I don't have any pets of any kind and I don't have any live or dead plants in my unit, unless fake plastic plants count. My neighbor upstairs does horde grain products and they are all over her kitchen floor (at least last time I was in her unit).

Sigh, it looks like I might be on my own on this. Fortunately, there is a Orkin/PCO pest control store right down the block from me. Hopefully they can help.

They're baaaack. Sigh... :(

Asmack, don't dispair. I had my pantry moths return after months of not seeing them. I got some sticky traps and they are gone again. You'll just have to keep at it until they are all gone. You may have brought some home with a recent purchase.

Newt

Thanks for the support, Newt. It's always good to know I am not alone in these struggles with pests. Sometimes I ask 'Why me," but then I come here and read about situations 100x worse than mine. My heart goes out to these people who are suffering from pest infestations of all kinds.

I contacted my property management company again, and this time they finally got back to me. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they use the same pest control company that the previous property management had used. The owner of the pest control company and I are on a first name basis because he remembers me from 4 years ago when I had that horrible rodents-in-my ceiling problem (see link in my first post upthread). He is aware of my upstairs neighbor's tendency to hoard food supplies and store them on her kitchen floor, which is directly above my den, where the moths are appearing (and where I don't store any food of any kind).

Anyway, I'm just glad I don't have to start from scratch with another pest control company because this particular pest guy is very thorough, knowledgeable and just as persistent as I am, so I am confident that we will get this under control soon (crosses fingers).

Asmack, you are so very welcome!

[The owner of the pest control company] is aware of my upstairs neighbor's tendency to hoard food supplies and store them on her kitchen floor, which is directly above my den, where the moths are appearing (and where I don't store any food of any kind).

Bingo! :thinker: That's most likely where they are coming from. I wonder if you can call the health department and report it.

Newt

Some moths are light averse, see which kind you have from your exterminator. At that point I would get pheremone sticky traps. Either on line or DIY pest control stores. They are pricey and 'clothes moths' won't go to the same lure as 'meal moths' so get the right one. I'd also do as 12 suggests and tape up or seal where they are sneaking in to your place. (you don't want to attract more with lures) check out this article and follow the recommendations as best you can. Stored product pests | Pest Cemetery (http://pestcemetery.com/?p=74) Should help.
http://pestcemetery.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/lure.jpg

Indian meal moths.......you need to get your guy to the source.....It could be in old rat or mouse bait as well.

Thanks for all the useful info!

we get moths in our pantry from flour products.
we use "pantry pest" traps they are sold at ace hardware and
are a carboard ten type thing with a bait.

ortho (scotts product) sells a home defense product non toxic
safe for kids and pets when dried we sprayed inside our pantries
and have not had a problem, nice little product.

The moths are still showing up. I've probably spotted and killed over 60 moths since February. The pest guy came in and put pheromone traps which resulted in no action whatsoever. We suspect they're getting in through the ceiling light and he suggested that we get these sealed off, but nothing has been done about it yet (sigh). He also thinks they are feeding off the corpses of the dead rodents up in my ceiling from a few years ago (see my first post).

There is no food whatsoever in my den. The pest guy did a thorough inspection of my place and did not see any signs of food, webbing, etc. Yet, they keep showing up. I keep all my food stored in the fridge, freezer, or in airtight/watertight glass containers.

While I am waiting for my property management to respond to this, I have decided to take some action by purchasing several Vapona strips and hanging them in my room with the door tightly closed. This has resulted in several dead moths, but I am unable to use the room now. Is this recommended? All my computer equipment is in there! (I'm typing on a borrowed laptop outside the room.) Is there any other action I can take while waiting to get my electrical outlets sealed?

I sometimes think this townhouse unit is cursed.:(

I have some concerns. Your pest control person used pheromone traps and attracted nothing, but you still have the moths. So what moths were these traps for? You need to identify which pest you have so you can leave the Vapona strips up for the required time based on the pest and how long the eggs take before they hatch. You really need to read this thoroughly.
http://www.nps.gov/history/museum/publications/conserveogram/02-04.pdf

Newt

Newt is right to be concerned. You're either on the wrong trail or you haven't gotten to the source. Please don't use pesticide for the sake of USING anything just hoping it will work.

I thought we identified these critters? Has that changed or was that not what it was?

Pest Cemetery (http://www.pestcemetery.com)

Newt is right to be concerned. You're either on the wrong trail or you haven't gotten to the source. Please don't use pesticide for the sake of USING anything just hoping it will work.

I thought we identified these critters? Has that changed or was that not what it was?

Pest Cemetery (http://www.pestcemetery.com)

A couple of months ago, the pest guy asked me to capture one of the moths. He then came, looked at it and installed a couple of pheromone traps which he said would attract one of the sexes (I think it was males).

Well, 3 weeks went by and no action whatsoever with the traps. So he came by for an inspection of my entire place and declared it clean, so he deduced that they were coming in from somewhere, probably from my ceiling light, because a few years ago, I had rodents in my ceiling and they all probably died up there, leaving corpses. He also said he would check with my upstairs neighbor to see if she was storing grain products on her kitchen floor right above me but he never told me the results of that.

I asked him why the traps didn't work, and he simply shrugged his shoulders. I also asked him if there were other traps we could try but he never answered me.

Anyway, I am depressed about the whole thing. I vacuumed about 20 dead moths last night in the den, all dead apparently from the Vapona strips, which I removed last night. Unbelievable how these things multiply.

The pest guy emailed me that he will come by to seal the light, but I am going to press him again about alternative pheromone traps to capture the remaining moths.

How many types of moth traps are there? Do I just try them all until I find one that works?

Also, is it possible these moths got into my computer equipment? Computers and hard drives generate heat, so I wonder if any of the larvae got into these. I also have an armoire, and a metal filing cabinet. I hope they didn't get in there, either.

Asmack, I would insist that he tell you which moths these are. And yes, they seem to be able to stay dormant for a very long time. I had some in my bedroom closet and used pheramone traps. After several months I stopped seeing any moths for over a year. Two weeks ago there were 2 moths flying by my face! Back to the traps for me. By the way, these are the same moths - pantry moths that I once had in my kitchen.

He needs to tell you which moths they are. And I do think there are different pheromones for different moths.

Newt

Asmack, I would insist that he tell you which moths these are. And yes, they seem to be able to stay dormant for a very long time. I had some in my bedroom closet and used pheramone traps. After several months I stopped seeing any moths for over a year. Two weeks ago there were 2 moths flying by my face! Back to the traps for me. By the way, these are the same moths - pantry moths that I once had in my kitchen.

He needs to tell you which moths they are. And I do think there are different pheromones for different moths.

Newt

Thanks, Newt. I will get him to look at the dead moths I collected and than ask him again for the correct pheromone traps this time. If he won't supply it, I will order it online or at the pest control store down my street (which I haven't gone to since it means paying out of my own pocket, but now I am desperate to try anything).

What do you think of Gentrol spray? I was considering getting some to spray in all the cracks and crevices along the walls.

Well, the pest control guy came today to look at the ceiling light fixture and determined it is not the point of entry. He looked more closely at one of the dead moths and said it was probably web casing moths, which might be feeding off my carpet, and/or small hairs that have dropped on the carpet. We shined a flashlight behind my armoire and he thought he saw web casings. However, because my armoire is jammed full of stuff, he said he will come back in two weeks after I've removed everything (next Monday is a stat holiday up here so that's why two weeks--I'm off work Mondays only.)

This probably explains why the traps for the pantry moths didn't work. The pest guy said that when he comes in two weeks to clean out the area behind the armoire, my computer desk, etc., he will also spray the baseboards with something to keep them from coming back--Gentrol perhaps? He said it's okay to leave the Vapona strips in place for now in order to kill any remaining adult moths, as long as I don't spend time in the room. I don't know why he didn't give me some new traps instead, now that he has suspected a different kind of moth.

At least now I feel some progress has been made, and it helps to explain why I have moths even though I don't store food products anywhere except in the fridge, freezer and in tightly sealed glass containers. Apparently, these moths look very similar to Indian Meal moths, which may have fooled the pest guy (to be fair, I only had dead, dried up samples to show him). I hope in the next few weeks this whole thing will be solved and I will be moth free for a while. Of course, there will probably be some other pest to contend with by then.

P.S. Newt, I'm sorry to hear you're having moth problems again. I hope you can nuke the problem once and for all.

I'm sure you've researched..but heres a good site with pictures and explanaions of the differences between the most common pests. Web casing moths (http://www.pantrypest.com/web.htm)

Asmack, I'm sooo glad you may soon have a resolution to this. Thank you so much for your sympathies about the return of mine. It's frustrating, to say the least.

Newt

http://americanpestmanagement.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/kristis-visit-067.jpg

I call these guys the "moving carpet" because in the larval state they can be seen wearing what they are eating. Check out the dark red carpet fibers.

I identified the problem from the pupal cases suspended from the ceiling in the living room. A closer observation yielded damage areas on a natural fiber (likely to be wool) area rug.

Fun fun!

http://americanpestmanagement.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/kristis-visit-067.jpg

I call these guys the "moving carpet" because in the larval state they can be seen wearing what they are eating. Check out the dark red carpet fibers.

I identified the problem from the pupal cases suspended from the ceiling in the living room. A closer observation yielded damage areas on a natural fiber (likely to be wool) area rug.

Fun fun!

Those sure are ugly little guys. Come to think of it, I did see webbing in the corners of my ceiling, but I thought these were spider webs, as did my pest control guy. I vacuumed them away. I'm thinking now of getting some boric acid and putting these all along the baseboards. But I'll do this after the pest control guy does his thing next Monday.

Well, the pest control guy just came and we moved the armoire from out of the corner (it's heavy and requires at least 2 people to move). There were many dead moths on the floor. But... no casings to be found. He brought in some industrial type sprayer, sprayed the baseboards and told me to not enter the room for at least two hours.

He is mystified as to what kind of moths they are. He thought they were case making moths but since there were no cases, and since the pheromone sticky traps for the pantry moths did not work, he is completely unsure of what kind of moths these were. I gave him a jar full of dead moths that I had collected and he has taken it to be examined.

So, what kind of moths are these? Some sort of mutant moths? I did have some clean, all-synthetic clothes in the bottom drawer of the armoire (the rest of the armoir was filled with books), but I had taken these out and there were no holes in them whatsoever or other evidence of larvae. And there was no food behind or anywhere near the armoire at all. What the heck were they eating? Dust? Because that's all there was behind the armoire besides carpet.

I found a dead moth tonight on the floor a few feet outside the closed door of my den (the room that was sprayed early yesterday). It wasn't there when I left for work this morning. Should I be concerned?

I guess I should be glad the moth was dead and not alive, but it creeps me out that some are still flying/crawling out of that room even after weeks of Vapona strips, naphthalene mothballs and now a professional spraying of the baseboards.

I know the baseboard spraying probably targets the larvae and not the adults, but I'm just wondering if I should put the Vapona strips and mothballs back in for a little longer to kill any remaining adults so that they can't reproduce.

Got rid of my armoire today. Took some photos of the carnage that was lurking behind there:

http://www.allanmack.com/img/v1/p378824808-4.jpg

http://www.allanmack.com/img/v2/p231252178-4.jpg

http://www.allanmack.com/img/v0/p107578738-4.jpg

(Click here for more photos.) (http://www.allanmack.com/moths)

Afterwards, I vacuumed all the dead moths, sprayed Perma Dust under the baseboards, sprinkled boric acid all along the wall and used a broom to spread the boric acid deep into the carpet. Hopefully this, and whatever the pest guy used to spray my room with 3.5 weeks ago will prevent the moths (still unidentified) from resurrecting.

Asmack, it's been a while since I've read this post anc I'm just getting back. What a mess that was! I'm really glad you found them and I hope they are gone for good!

Newt

Thanks, Newt!

It's been over a month now since the spraying and so far, no sign of the moths. That corner where the armoire was is now nice and open so that I can vacuum the baseboards more easily. I'm planning on replacing some of my other furniture with ones that have casters on them so that I can clean behind them periodically as well.

I also want to eventually replace all my carpet with cork flooring because it contains suberin, which is resistant to insects and has many other benefits:

Prime Flooring: Cork flooring with Suberin (http://primeflooring.blogspot.com/2008/07/cork-flooring-with-suberin.html)

Found another moth on my ceiling this morning at 3AM (I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep). Same type of moth as before. It's still alive--I caught it in a jar and have contacted the pest control guy.

I give up. The moths win. I have no energy left to fight these tenacious little buggers.