Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - The tile disaster. Where to go now?

Hello-
After tear out and installing the plywood subfloor & hardiboard, rewiring the electric and new plumbing, I thought that things were going smooth. My dad helped frame the niche and walls for the medicine cabinets, and install/tape and mud the drywall.

Then that's where the problems begin.
#1-
I went to set the toilet, and realized that my tile was set too low below the toilet flange, and now the toilet will not set correctly. I have called a plumber, and he is going to come by, and hopefully be able to cut the iron pipe and install a new PVC drain, with the flange set at the proper height.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewheatley/2690353849/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewheatley/2690353525/

#2-
My walls are not square, flat or plumb. I Started the tile install on the bottom row, and by the time I got to the top, I realized that a large gap was forming in the corner.

I'm not quite sure what the best option is to get things right, so I think that it is time to call in the pro's.

I'm having a tile guy come by this afternoon and take a look at things. I actually just spoke with him, and apparently the easy board isn't rated for the weight of the porcelain tiles, so it looks like a tear out is in my future. :wall: :wall: :wall:

Anyhow, he is going to come by tonight and take a look.
The good thing is, I am a graphic designer, and he said that we may be able to work out some trade work for services. Which will certainly help the bottom line.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2690412107_ce8f0b8924_o.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewheatley/sets/72157606302304006/

Oh, and the grout on the floor changed from Beige to white.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2690432507_c6743cf07c_b.jpg

I do believe you have to tear that out and start over again. Sorry for the bad news.

Are you the same guy whose tub was off by 3/4"?:wall:

On that back wall, draw a vertical center line. Start your layout with one full tile on each side of the line. You'll have a little more than half tiles in the corners. Youll get rid of those skinny pieces on the side of the niche as well. That will hide the out of plumb walls as best you can. Youll have to remove the sidewalls too.

I know you dont want to hear this, but this is why all this gets addressed and corrected up front.:)

You should also drop the ledger board down a little so the bottom of the niche lines up with a full row of tile. Is that plywood I see on the bottom of that niche?:confused:

I havent used easyboard, but dont think you have a problem with 12" porcelain. I dont see why this would be a problem.:)

Keep us posted on what your "tile guy" says.:)

Thanks for the advice. I am meeting with him at 5.

That is plywood, but it is not staying there. I/somebody is putting in the same material as the counter top, Ceaserstone.

It is very humbling working with tile. :wall:

I figured that for the job to be done correctly, it will have to have a fresh start. So I am prepared to tear out. I also am now aware that poor planning has led to quite a few mistakes. I thought that I knew what I was doing, but now it is obvious that I did not.

Now I can only hope that it will not cost me a fortune to have the guy do it for me. If that is the case, then I guess that I will have to suck it up and try again.

thanks

I actually just spoke with him, and apparently the easy board isn't rated for the weight of the porcelain tiles, so it looks like a tear out is in my future.

Well, tear out might be needed, but the easyboard comment? That's called talking out your arse. Some people have no clue...aka...your tile guy.

Seriously, take Johnny's advice and post back with everything he says. Also, take the knowledge you've gained here to ask questions to probe exactly what methods and materials he proposes. Then ask him "why" to use those specific materials.

From the initial phone conversation, he recommended cement board for the backer. He said with the weight of the porcelin tile, it needed something stronger. He said the easyboard would be fine for maybe 10 years, but the cement board is a better choice and should hold up much longer.

I'll post his response after I speak with him tonight.

A quote from the EasyBoard data sheet on Custom Building Products website.

USES
1⁄2" EasyBoard is designed for use on walls, ceilings,
countertops or vanities as an interior substrate for ceramic
tile, stone, slate and thin-brick veneers.

I certainly dont see why your "tile guy" is making this statement. By the way porcelain tile is a type of "ceramic tile". Perhaps he is not familiar with EasyBoard and didnt take the time to familiarize himself with it. A better response from him would have been "Im not sure, Im not familiar with the product, I'll check it out and get back to you." Id ask a lot of questions to make sure he is what he says he is.

Okay. After speaking with him tonight, he clarified what I thought he said. He said that easyboard is fine to use, he just prefers to use the cement board in shower enclosures. His price sounds fare, $600 + materials to remove what is there and put it up correctly.

$600? Not a bad deal at all....

$600?? :alarm: :eek: :alarm:

If he thinks $600 is enough to go in and tear out the walls, square and plumb the studs, hang cbu, box in a niche, set tile and grout for $600, I hope for your sake he actually knows what he is doing. I'd really hate to see tear out # 2.

All I can say is the lowest bidders always talk the best game.

Where are you from? I doubt the prevailing labor rates are that low. His easyboard judgement, his porcelain tile comment, and his price, I fear he might only have "You can do it, we can help" type knowledge.

Lastly, is that tub flange I see exposed on the wet wall and opposite wall? Looks kinda like the easyboard was run behind the flange on those 2 walls.

Ew

Find out exactly what he intends to do for $600.00. If the tile and easyboard will be demo'ed make sure he intends to get the framing plumb and square. I don't know where you are located, but $600.00 sounds really cheap to me, and I am thinking somethings not right with this guy.

The fact that he likes cbu instead of easyboard is ok. He may be reluctant to work with something he's not familiar with. I'm sometimes that way myself, not always the first guy to try something, I often wait to get feedback from others.

Here is what he should be doing. Demo to the studs. Get the framing plumb and square. Unfaced insullation in exterior walls. Either a poly vapor barrier or waterproofing under the tile, one or the other, not both. Cement board should be gapped about 1/8" or so at all seems and corners. Make sure he uses the right screws. Mud and tape (alkalai reisistent mesh tape) all seems and corners with same thinset he will be setting tile with. This can be done at the same time he sets the tile. He should be using a modified thinset for the porcelain tile (make sure no premixed junk, thinset or grout). The niche should be lined with cbu, mudded and taped and then apply a surface waterproofing (like the redgard you used). The surface applied membrane should extend onto the face of the cbu 6 to 8" or so.

Give some thought to the tile layout on that back wall. Make sure you don't wind up in the same situation you are in now. 5full tiles accross the back may not work. Give some thought to where all the tile will fall around the niche as well. Talk it over with this guy so you know ahead of time what his plans are.

Tilebri asked about the tub flange on the wet wall and opposite wall. It does look like the easyboard is behind the flange. That will cause water problems for sure. If thats the case, make sure the walls gets firred out so that the cbu overhangs the flange.

If using a surface applied waterproofing over the cbu (instead of vapor barrier over studs), wait an extra day or 2 before grouting. It'll give the modified thinset extra time to cure (it needs air). Seal the grout according to manufacturers instructions (you can do this yourself). Make sure the corners and the joint where tub meets tile get caulked, not grouted.

If his plans are similar to above, then you'll be ok. If something doesnt sound right, ask him about it. Come here and ask as well.

Thank you for the advice.

He is suppose to call me back this afternoon to see if he is going to accept my proposal for graphic design services.

I offered a logo design, Business Card Design, Brochure design and webpage design in exchange for his install. I still have to provide all materials.

I will double check with him about what exactly he intends to do. He is young, I think he said 26, but said that he has been tiling for 10 years. I will ask for references before he starts and make phone calls.

For waterproofing he said that he planned on using felt paper behind the Durock on the walls. He mentioned using Mapei Thinset, fast drying.

I may have him redo my floor as well. I spaced the tiles with 1/8" grout joints, and used an unsanded grout. He said that because the tiles have a beveled edge, I got a larger grout joint that 1/8" and that the grout may crack over time. All of my beige grout turned white also, which is no good when I have a toddler and a dog.

If I remember correctly, base price for shower is $150 + $150 for the niche. Then the install was $3 a square foot.

The price he gave me may not include the tear out, but I am 90% sure that it does.

He said that he doesn't buy any of his stuff from the Big Box stores, and does not trust their advice. He gets all of his stuff directly from the manufactures or tile supply houses.

Are there any specific questions that I should ask him to make sure that he is on the up & up?

Here is the listing that I contacted him through:
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/sks/749035636.html

If he agrees to my terms, I am only out the price of materials if he screws things up again. I am confident that he will do a much better job than I. Whereas, I am pretty sure that if I try it again, and screw it up, then I am out the cost of materials anyway.

As far as the backer board in my photos.
The back wall, the board is covering the flange all the way.
The side walls, the backer board is sitting ontop of the flange.
The backer board is not behind tub.

Should I have run the board all the way down to the tub deck on the sides, as I did with the back wall?

So I just spoke with him.

He is not going to accept my offer for design, which sucks. Considering it had a value of $3,500 - $5,000, but I guess if the client doesn't need it, or want it then, there isn't much that can be done. :(

So onto the next step.

Here was his latest response:

"All the prices are correct. I went home and started some research on the new brand of thin set that has replaced Mapi type 2. Its called Super flex. The price per bag has went up from $35.00 per bag to $55.00 per bag. I would need there bags to do your shower so the Price comes to $697.00. I can supply the 3 bags of thin set for the floor, it will come to $165.00 at $55.00 per bag. The Super flex is meant for older homes and can flex with any future movement of your home so no tile will crack or grout will fall out. The floor price come's to $227.85, if you do all of the removal of existing sub-floor and tile. the total cost comes to $1089.85. Since I will be supplying over half of the material I will like to receive half down and the other half when job is complete. I can start the job on Wed. the 30. and have completed on the 31st. I would have to pick up first deposit no later then Sat. the 26. so I can order the material and have ready for the 30th."

So shell out over a grand,
Or, try again myself...

Do it yourself! Something about him doesn't sound right...

His thinset he is proposing is good....but is probably overkill. A 50lb bag of Versabond is $14, and is good stuff.

Do it yourself! Something about him doesn't sound right...

His thinset he is proposing is good....but is probably overkill. A 50lb bag of Versabond is $14, and is good stuff.

I've done a lot of tiling and have not had trouble with regular grade thinset from Lowe's or Home Depot in the $15 per bag range.


Good luck,
Doug