Entertainment Center: TVs, Stereos, VCRs and DVDs - No signal on Winegard RC-DT09 Digitial Converter box

Hi all,
First thank you if you are able to offer any help in my problem. Let me describe situation.
1. Trying out new Winegard digital converter box to see what I get. Connected it - got no signals found on Channel Scan. Eliminated C-band satellite receiver and Sony (5 year) VHS/VCR dual player - still no channels found
2. TV is a 5 year old 26" Sony wega, don't have the exact model # with me
3. My current hookup is the largest fringe outdoor mounted on 20 ft mast, antenna Radio Shack offers (around an 8ft boom with over 60/70 elements), also have best Radio Shack pre-amp installed - claims 28dB gain on VHF and UHF
4. Analog operations with this setup are satisfactory; however disconnecting or powering-off the pre-amp power results in absolutely no clear Analog signal on any VHF stations and typically the only UHF station we receive with the pre-amp connected is from Ch24, Morgantown WV with only traces/ghosts of signals for some of the more popular Pittsburgh PA stations located 55-60 miles north - such as ch 53 FOX, ch 22 TBS
5. Our home is located at the foot of an est. 500 ft high wooded ridge hill that runs North-South and blocks direct reception from the Pittsburgh TV stations

First Question - Are the digital transmissions primarily going to be on UHF frequencies? Those are the ones we absolutely don't receive. I've read 95% of digital broadcasts after 2/17/2009 will be on UHF; with remaining 5% on limited VHF. The reason being that the Feds sold off the other available VHF ranges for commercial development.
This would leave us with having to migrate to either DISH or Direct TV for service.

Have been advised by Radio Shack to hook up 2 amplifiers but from what I see here in related threads that may not be a good fix - increasing the 'noise' as well as the 'signal'.

Would a 'better' antenna, or specific or even separate UHF antenna and/or pre-amp be a recommended solution - and could you recommend a combination?

What type of UHF antenna would be the best for such a situation - bow-tie or in-line, if a separate UHF antenna is better for digital signal reception? I'm wondering if I could mount that on an extension to my current VHF/UHF antenna mast as a separate input for UHF-only and get maybe an extra 8 ft of height. The only part I don't know if there will still be a need based on the broadcasting that will remain on the remaining 5% of VHF spectra out of the Pittsburgh area

Last question. Since, I've not converted from RG-59 to RG-6 coax for improved signal - Would that require specific or different pre-amp and splitter for RG-6 connections? That is will the RG-6 connector fit on a RG-59 socket? I'm just trying to think ahead in case that is necessary.
Thanks for your help.
Greynold99

Is the antenna on a rotor? It should be. According to www.antennaweb.org for Morgantown, stations you can pick up are all over the compass and require a directional antenna. Some are VHF, some are UHF.

The main difference between RG59 and RG6 is 59's greater attenuation at higher frequencies over distance. (UHF freqs are higher than VHF.) RG6 will help if the run is more than 100 feet.

Before you do anything, double-check to make sure all of the "F" connections are solidly crimped with no exposed white dielectric, no shorted strands, and no corrosion. Don't use twist-on connectors. F connectors' thread patterns are the same for RG59 and RG6, but the connectors themselves are different. RG6 is thicker, so the connector body is larger to accommodate the extra thickness.

You can minimize the attenuation effect of the 59 (and 6) by putting the preamp as close to the antenna as practical. IOW, put it at the beginning of the run of cable, not the end. A second amp at the end of the run might help, but only if the run of cable is more than 150 feet or so.

Trees and other structures will block signals, so that ridge is definitely in play. Is there any chance you can get an antenna atop that ridge? Maybe share the cost with some neighbors? A rotor would be out -- you'd have to use several directional static antennas into a combiner. (I know, that's a stretch. But that's how cable TV started in the late 60's as MATV, or Master Antenna TV.)

Even with all that, you might not have enough signal-to-noise ratio to receive digital broadcasts. As the distance from transmitter to antenna increases, an analog picture will gracefully be overtaken by noise (snow) until there is more snow than picture. Even then, we can continue to see and hear a distant TV station.

Not so with digital. A digital signal will simply stop working when the signal-to-noise ratio falls below a certain point.

Rick,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, antenna is on a rotor and pre-amp is mounted next/connected to antenna off of twin-ax cable feed to coax converter unit. We're actually in PA but the south-ridge (facing Morgantown) of the 'valley' we're in opens up gradually than the north-ridge, allowing signal to come in from South and East somewhat.

I don't think topping the ridge is an option - about a 1/4mile walking distance to top (10% grade on average), crossing 2 different property lines/owners. First property, adjacent to mine is wooded as I mentioned; second property (600 ft to ridge top) is active pasture for haying operations. Just out of curiosity though and not knowing any more than what I've indicated; do you have a general guesstimate for what it take cost/material-wise to do this? It just occurred to me that the 2 other property owners share a common property line that I might be able to follow - maybe just a bit longer to follow it than going directly up the hill.

I understand what you said about RG-6 vs. RG-59 connector difference but wouldn't that mean that when you bought your signal pre-amp that you'd have to specify which coax you were using? Maybe I missed it but I don't remember seeing that in reviewing the current specs for what I have. Just want to make sure I understand; or will the RG-59 socket on the pre-amp simply accomodate the larger RG-6 plug on the cable-side?

Since you didn't mention it specifically; I guess you don't believe a UHF-specific directional antenna would make any difference...? I was hoping maybe getting another 10 ft in height with the smaller-profile UHF antenna on my current mast might make the difference but it sounds like we're going to have to go with a digital service.
Thanks
greynold99

The "F" connector on the preamp mates to the same thread pattern on the cable connector, whether it's RG59, 6, or 11. Even rigid can be used, with an adapter. The cable itself has nothing to do with compatibility. They all carry the same signals, so your preamp will work with any of the cables.

It's a moot point, though. You've got a proper setup. It sounds like you're just not able to pull in strong enough signals. I don't believe a directional UHF will help. Have you checked antennaweb.org? It's usually pretty accurate.

You can also try one of the "smart" antennas, but it might be throwing good money after bad unless you can return it.

I, too, have a feeling you'll be getting a dish.

Rick,
Yes, I checked out AntennaWeb.org and they do a pretty good job with pin-pointing your exact geographic location and specifying required antenna. And recommended antenna-system agreed with your recommendations and our current configuration.

One question about the dish setup... I have my current antenna mounted on one of those residential tower type units (1" tubular/triangular cross-section construction if your looking down from top), it's well anchored to 8" thick (18"X18" concrete pad and to top of fascia roof rafter) and my rotator is mounted to the top of it. Will that be a suitable mounting framework for a small dish? I don't like the way I've seen some of the small dish systems fastened directly to the roof and the opposite end of the house is where our electrical power comes in. Antenna-mast is on west-side of house with open view to southern sky - no trees.
I'm still considering of running new RG-6 coax in order to get the benefits of the larger wire -- but only if the dish satellite could use it... They don't run their own signal cable do they, if there's suitable cable already in place? I hadn't thought there might be a difference.
Thanks again,
Greynold99

A twenty foot mast isn't necessary and won't make any difference to the dish, but if trees are an issue then keep it. As long as it's got an open view to the southwestern sky you can mount it anywhere, though.

The price of the contract usually includes free installation. The installers will run cable & make the connections. The cable will probably be RG6 with compression connectors. They may charge you extra to mount it atop a mast.

Keep in mind, too, that a mast-mounted dish will sway in the wind. Even a slight movement of the dish will cause signal dropout.

Rick,
I wasn't wanting to mount the mini-dish on the 'mast' but on the top of the tower where normally the antenna rotor unit body goes. I think I've seen that type of installation somewhere before and because I have an open southern-sky exposure (no trees on that side, only on the northern exposure in the direction where most the OTA TV signals originate) there should not be any problems. The antenna-tower is close to the same height as the roof-ridge. My main objective is to not mount directly on the roof, through the asphalt shingles and possibly having leaks after a period of time.

Thanks,
Greynold99

I also am in Morgantown and cannot receive signal from a Magnavox converter. I have plenty of analog gain on channel 5 and 12, but the box will not pick it up. I am not certain ch 12 is broadcasting digital yet, but five certainly is. My understanding is that the box picks up the analog and converts it to digital. So all of your current setup and boosters should be just fine. I am unsure of how weak of a signal the box will convert though. Ch4 out of Pittsburgh is not real clear, but easily watchable with some snow. How would I know what will and what won't be picked up?
I also have a question as to ghosting. I get a very good gain on Ch24, but it has always ghosted. I thought the converter box would give me one clear picture. Is this true? (assuming I ever get this box to find any signal):wall: