Fences and Gates - Hemlock Fence Build my own!

Hello all, I am going to be putting up a fence soon. I am not sure what the name of it is called but I am going to stagger them 6" apart on the inside and outside. So if people try to look in they have to be at a sharp angle to see anything, although this fence is not for privacy but for our dog and 2 kids!! LOL
I am going to use rough cut hemlock(after much thought and advice) and have it plained on both sides. Fence is going to be 5ft high and posts roughly 10ft. apart. Fence posts I am having the mill make 1"X6"X10'. I know the thickness will be just under 1" but I can live w/ that. My posts are going to be 4x4's. Now I wanna put a 10' door in on the one side so I am going to use 6x6 posts for that. The other door I am going to make about 6' and also 6x6 posts. The debate is now how to anchor posts to the ground?? My coworkers say to cement all of them, then one says to cement the corners, door posts, and a few others here and there? What are your suggestions. I am going to stake it out tomorrow. The first time I measured w/ my 20ft tape I got roughly 280ft of fence. That is roughly 280 boards and roughly 30 posts. Not cheap but a heck of a lot cheaper than vinyl. My quote on the boards (1"x6"x12') was 925 bucks but since then I have changed to 5ft height instead of 6ft. Well any opinions would be nice. THANKS

What are you going to use for RAILS that will span 10 feet???

If you search back into this forum more that a couple of weeks you'll know my opinion of burying wood posts in the dirt, with or without concrete. If there's any doubt in this forum, go see what I have to say in Decks. (dirt rots wood -- end of discussion.)

Sure, vinyl is more expensive up front, But you only have to spend the money ONCE, not ever 15 years or so. (Like Firestone said about radial tires in the '70's -- It's not how much you spend, it's how often you spend it!)

One other concern is the dryness of the wood you will be using. Has it been dried either in a kiln or dry stacked for a year? If not, you will have a mess when it starts shrinking and popping screws/nails and trying to bend on its own. Just food for thought.

What will be the width of your vertical boards? You calculation suggests 12 inch boards, which will have a lot of shrinkage.

I hear ya about the vinyl fencing but at 7500 dollars that I quoted NO THANKS!! That is nuts. About the shrinking, the lumber mill said that hemlock has very little shrinkage, I am not butting the 1inX6inX5ft boards up against each other. They are going to be spaced 6"in apart. THe width of the boards are 6inches(6") not 12. The boards I am going to use to span the 10ft to tie the posts together will be also rough cut hemlock 2x4's also plained. Again let me know what you think. My 3 coworkers I am talking to about this have the same fence and one has been up about 9 yrs and only had to replace 2 boards. Also I will be staining the boards!! ANYONE wanna help stain roughly 280 boards!?? HA HA THat is going to suck. Might just spray it on!

The type of fence you are building is called a "shadow box" style. I'm afraid you are going to have to recalculate the number of boards you will need.

Shadow box fence pickets are installed with an overlap relative to the boards on the opposite side of the fence. If you used 1x6 material and offset with a 3 inch gap between, you would end up using 3 boards per running foot of fence (actually less than a foot as a 1x6 is more like 1x5.5). Without the overlap, you would have a very "airy" fence. You wouldn't have to stand at very much of an angle to see through it.

A 280ft long shadow box fence would require more like 840 pickets. On your post calculations, don't forget to add 1 to your calculation for the post needed at the start of the run.

ok WOW!! That is nuts. I know what you mean though. I did see my coworkers and it looks great the way his is which is the way I described it. I am not worried so much about the privacy thing so that is fine. I guess I may change it though like you said. But instead of a 3" spacing on either side of the fence like you said maybe I'll do 5" or something like that since the privacy isn't an issue. We will see. I just dug all 32 holes today. Hoping to cement some tomorrow. I ended up just getting all 4x4's. 6x6's after I got looking at them would just be out of place and way to freaken big!! I'll just make my doors smaller. Any other comments please post!! I appreciate them!! Even though they make me second guess.

Before you cement anything into the ground, I would make sure your math works out on the spacing. I would tack together a test panel and look at what you've got. Make sure that at a spacing of 5" (on the offset) it creates a small enough opening that the dogs can't get through. If you have small kids, you also want to make sure that they can not get their heads stuck in the fence in anyway. They can also get their arms and legs tangled as well. If your kids are tiny, don't forget to think about their chubby friends that may also frequent your yard.

Consider also at this time the design of your gates. Even a 3 foot gate can be heavy enough to pull a 4x4 out of plumb. Consider a braced boxed frame to keep the door from sagging. You can also add some angled bracing to the panel adjacent to the gate on either side to keep the 4x4's straight. Where is the gate hardware going to be placed, is there a sufficient framing member on the gate to attach to? attaching hardware to a picket probably will not stand the test of time.

Just want to make sure that you have covered all contingencies before you committ. Unfortunately, my calculator must be broke, because I still only think you have enough boards (280) to cover only one side of the fence. If that......:rolleyes:

diyplank,

Just sit back and read and reread every reply that has been posted. We're just trying to steer you away from all of the mistakes that we have made or seen in the past.

A shadow box fence eats up a LOT more boards than just a panel fence does. Plan on it.

Gates (even a 3' gate) puts a LOT of pressure on a fence post. (Fill a 1/2 gallon bucket with water and hold with your hand right at your shoulder. Now, hold it straight out from your shoulder. How long can you keep it there??)

Either use a 6X6 gate post, or use a cable and turnbuckle from the top of the gate post back to the bottom of the next line post to keep that gate post from leaning under the pressure of the gate.

I have been doing a lot of research and asking a lot of questions and all the reply's are starting to turn me to just go buy vinyl but my budget turns me right back to wood! I feel like two people are fighting over me pulling my arms in different directions w/ this ungodly HUGE project!!
I appreciate all the reply's!! There is stuff in there I never thought of like my 2yo getting his head stuck!! He is a (not to be mean) hellion!! LOL I am thinking about this and maybe we will just do a traditional picket type fence. If so how far do we space the boards?? Also I wanted to put a gate in that was big enough to fit my truck and landscaping trailer through. I am planning on replanting some of the lawn in the fall or next spring and I will be needing dirt. I can kinda picture what the turnbuckles are and what not but where can I find info on them? I did a search on Yahoo and found squat!
They attatch to the gate farthest from the post so the gate don't sag correct?? Then a cable runs to the post that the gate is attatched to?? Also I was going to space out my 4x4's 10ft? Is this to much. My research shows 6-8ft?
I have a headache now!! This is nuts. Shoulda just took out a personal loan to do the vinyl. GRRRR :mad: :wall:

What about pre-assembled 6' high x 8' sections(wood) at lowes/hd, etc. Any good?? I found a nice one at lowes for 45 dollars a section. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=34463-77007-34463&lpage=none
Couple people I talked to say that the boards are cheap and some are warped and you have to pick through them?? I just went today and bought 30 4x4's and 10 80 pound bags of concrete. Let me know what you guys think!! THANKS A LOT BY THE WAY!! Everyone has been a huge help!!

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk246/czizzi/DCP_0691.jpg

Here is a picture of a cross braced gate. Not the best example, but the door is strong. The right side braced panel in this pic is non-functional, only put it in to balance the left cross brace. We wanted to match the double gates on the opposite side of the house. Where we cross braced the side panels to add support to the 4x4's holding up 2 much larger panels. I tested this design out by hanging all 200lbs of me on the latch side and had a worker swing me through a full door rotations. The 4x4 never budged.

From the street side, there are no visible cross members. Only a smooth fence panel. Later we trimmed all the 4x4 tops 3 inch above the top of the fence and added decorative post caps to each 4x4.

Very nice fence?? What kinda wood is that?? Looks great. We just have a big lawn. Its bigger than all the houses on my block b/c we live on the corner. That is why it is costing so much. We don't know what we are going to do now. I would love to have this project done by the end of June so we can atleast enjoy it for the summer. I don't wanna rush it and screw things up though either. Thanks

4x4's and 2x4's are #2 pressure treated

1x6's pickets are #2 pressure treated Appearance grade that were surfaced on all 4 sides.

don't use premade panels, they won't last more than about 3years each. don't set your posts more than 8 ft apart unless you will use 2x6 crosspieces, do set at least the corner posts and the gate posts in concrete, but pour at least 6 in of gravel in the bottom of each hole to allow water to drain this will double the life of wood posts. dig/drill each hole 6 in deeper than needed to allow for the gravel. do use stainless steel screws to install the cross boards this will allow easier repairs/replacements as necessary, things happen, and panels get ruined by stuff beyond your control. i fenced my corner lot almost 23 years ago and all but 12 of my origanal posts are still standing up to Oklahoma winds.

remember Murphy was an optimist

Thanks for all the reply's. I appreciate all of them!! I think I am still going to do it the way I planned! I will just put my posts a little closer together. I am going to build an 8ft. section in the garage just to see what it will look like. I am going to be digging the holes on thursday. I am going to try and rent a small kubota w/ the auger on the back. A lot easier than the gas powered auger that takes 2 people and their backs to do 30+ holes. I will keep everyone posted. I will be taking pics as I go. THANKS AGAIN!!!! Hope I can help as much as you guys did some day!:D

Well, I rented an easy auger, the ones that are on wheels and hydraulic turned. WHAT A GREAT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT!!! 150 dollars, only b/c I couldn't pick it up at a certain time so I had to have it 2 days. Took my friend and I about 1.5 hrs to drill 28 8" holes at about 24-30 inches deep!! Anyone wanting to drill holes this is GREAT!! 60 dollars for a day rental at best line equipment rentals!!!
Anyway, I got all the posts up and just about half of my rough cut hemlock boards cut to size(5' in length). Here is my question. What should my spacing be for my joists press. treated 2x4's be?? Like 1 ft off the ground and 1.5 foot down from the top of the board?? Also how do I determine this b/c my ground is uneven a little and each post will be different?? My friend and dad are trying to explain this to me but I just can't picture it?? They are both busy until next weekend but I would like to work on them during the week if I get time. I know I'll need a string line for the boards. Thanks Again.