Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Leak Behind Ledger Board
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neutron99
04-20-08, 07:04 PM
Hi,
Just recently bought a home with a second floor deck over walk out basement. Deck is about 12' wide (along the wall) by 10' deep.
Disclosures noted that there had been a leak at deck join into basement but that it had been fixed.
Had the first big rainfall since we bought the place and it seems that "fixed" is a loose term - water was running down the inside of the basement patio door. I dug out the sodden drywall over the patio door and the header board is very wet. Paint is bubbling at the join between wall and ceiling there too - as though it had been done on a wet wall...
After reading here it seems my problems are legion...
1) No flashing
2) No siding cutout - deck is lag screwed through holes in siding
3) "Fix" was a lot of caulking along the top of the deck edge, water is running round that and back under.
So. My questions are - what are the chances that my rim joist is rotten? I have no idea how long there has been a leak. The basement is finished, so I assume that taking a look will require ripping out a band of drywall along the top of the wall and along the ceiling against the wall.
Can I take out the siding (aluminum) above the ledger board, fit some flashing and if the leaking stops go merrily on?
What is this likely to cost me if (a)I need to get the deck re-fitted (b) if I need a new rim joist (I'm in Montgomery Count MD, not the cheapest of places)?
TIA
Andrew
Just recently bought a home with a second floor deck over walk out basement. Deck is about 12' wide (along the wall) by 10' deep.
Disclosures noted that there had been a leak at deck join into basement but that it had been fixed.
Had the first big rainfall since we bought the place and it seems that "fixed" is a loose term - water was running down the inside of the basement patio door. I dug out the sodden drywall over the patio door and the header board is very wet. Paint is bubbling at the join between wall and ceiling there too - as though it had been done on a wet wall...
After reading here it seems my problems are legion...
1) No flashing
2) No siding cutout - deck is lag screwed through holes in siding
3) "Fix" was a lot of caulking along the top of the deck edge, water is running round that and back under.
So. My questions are - what are the chances that my rim joist is rotten? I have no idea how long there has been a leak. The basement is finished, so I assume that taking a look will require ripping out a band of drywall along the top of the wall and along the ceiling against the wall.
Can I take out the siding (aluminum) above the ledger board, fit some flashing and if the leaking stops go merrily on?
What is this likely to cost me if (a)I need to get the deck re-fitted (b) if I need a new rim joist (I'm in Montgomery Count MD, not the cheapest of places)?
TIA
Andrew
Kobuchi
04-20-08, 07:25 PM
Can I take out the siding (aluminum) above the ledger board, fit some flashing and if the leaking stops go merrily on?
Yes, at least. If your deck is puddling water toward the house it won't make any difference though until you bed the flashing down. What's the surface?
Depending on deck footings and stairs, moving the deck a little could be easy or near impossible.
Yes, at least. If your deck is puddling water toward the house it won't make any difference though until you bed the flashing down. What's the surface?
Depending on deck footings and stairs, moving the deck a little could be easy or near impossible.
neutron99
04-20-08, 08:05 PM
Doesn't seem to be puddling. Deck has decent gaps between boards.
I figured I'd need to remove the siding behind the ledger board (loosen the lag bolts, cut it out) and insert a suitable spacer between the ledger board and the rim joist, tighten and then fix up the flashing and siding.
Sound reasonable?
Andrew
I figured I'd need to remove the siding behind the ledger board (loosen the lag bolts, cut it out) and insert a suitable spacer between the ledger board and the rim joist, tighten and then fix up the flashing and siding.
Sound reasonable?
Andrew
lefty
04-20-08, 08:58 PM
neutron99,
How expensive the repair will become depends on the amount of water damage inside the wall.
Taking out sheetrock on the inside won't tell you a lot unless there's A LOT of damage.
You need to support the deck so you can remove the ledger, remove the siding and get to the rim joist and see what condition it it in.
As you fix your way out, attach the ledger, flash it, "J" channel around it and reinstall the siding into the "J" channel. Then you'll be able to reattach the deck to the ledger.
After all of that is done, repair the interior.
How expensive the repair will become depends on the amount of water damage inside the wall.
Taking out sheetrock on the inside won't tell you a lot unless there's A LOT of damage.
You need to support the deck so you can remove the ledger, remove the siding and get to the rim joist and see what condition it it in.
As you fix your way out, attach the ledger, flash it, "J" channel around it and reinstall the siding into the "J" channel. Then you'll be able to reattach the deck to the ledger.
After all of that is done, repair the interior.
neutron99
04-20-08, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the process.
The more I've thought about it the more it has become clear that pulling back the deck from the wall to get to that side of the joist then re-attaching it properly is the only answer. The interior water damage is not too bad, at least superficially.
I looked up old permits online and it seems that the deck was installed in '97. I'm hoping that the water ingress was relatively recent and thus the risk of rot is low. Wishful thinking, I know.
Was this "through the siding" approach really allowed by building code in '97? Seems dodgy to me (and I know little about home construction) simply because there is a compressible layer between the deck ledger and the rim joist.
I'm going to investigate the chances of being able to shift the existing deck on it's outer mountings to see if I can pull the whole thing into the wall so as to not have to pad it (which AFAICS wouldn't meet building code).
Is this the sort of thing that a general contractor could do, or should I get a specialist deck firm in? (I realize this is a diy forum, but given that my daughter will be playing on the deck, I don't want to bet on my ability to do load bearing construction).
Andrew
The more I've thought about it the more it has become clear that pulling back the deck from the wall to get to that side of the joist then re-attaching it properly is the only answer. The interior water damage is not too bad, at least superficially.
I looked up old permits online and it seems that the deck was installed in '97. I'm hoping that the water ingress was relatively recent and thus the risk of rot is low. Wishful thinking, I know.
Was this "through the siding" approach really allowed by building code in '97? Seems dodgy to me (and I know little about home construction) simply because there is a compressible layer between the deck ledger and the rim joist.
I'm going to investigate the chances of being able to shift the existing deck on it's outer mountings to see if I can pull the whole thing into the wall so as to not have to pad it (which AFAICS wouldn't meet building code).
Is this the sort of thing that a general contractor could do, or should I get a specialist deck firm in? (I realize this is a diy forum, but given that my daughter will be playing on the deck, I don't want to bet on my ability to do load bearing construction).
Andrew
lefty
04-21-08, 05:39 PM
What license the contractor has depends on what state you're in and what specialty license they have. In CA, there is no specialty license for decks, like there is for say a plumber or an electrician. So those of us who do decks here have a General Contractor's license.
The deck is 11 years old, and I'll guarantee you that without proper flashing, it's been leaking since day one. Water and moisture can and will do a LOT of damage in 11 years.
The "thru the siding" installation probably wouldn't have been something that the inspector would catch, unless he was REALLY on the ball. And 11 years ago, deck safety wasn't nearly as big of a buzz word as it is today. In the past 4 or 5 years there have been several deck collapses that have killed several people. THAT got a lot of attention from most bldg. depts.
Moving the joists in towards the house probably won't work. There are things called 'Deck2Wall spacers' that are 5/8" thick, which should be about what you need to make up for the siding that you remove. (www.deck2wallspacer.com). And that 5/8" space between the back of the ledger and the wall surface will be a good thing.
The deck is 11 years old, and I'll guarantee you that without proper flashing, it's been leaking since day one. Water and moisture can and will do a LOT of damage in 11 years.
The "thru the siding" installation probably wouldn't have been something that the inspector would catch, unless he was REALLY on the ball. And 11 years ago, deck safety wasn't nearly as big of a buzz word as it is today. In the past 4 or 5 years there have been several deck collapses that have killed several people. THAT got a lot of attention from most bldg. depts.
Moving the joists in towards the house probably won't work. There are things called 'Deck2Wall spacers' that are 5/8" thick, which should be about what you need to make up for the siding that you remove. (www.deck2wallspacer.com). And that 5/8" space between the back of the ledger and the wall surface will be a good thing.