Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - Bathroom Remodel - Codes? Inspections?

Good Morning-

I am starting a bathroom remodel this summer.
It is a small bathroom, 9' x 7'

I plan a complete tear out of all fixtures, tile and lighting.

I then plan to install a whirlpool tub (in the alcove), a fan/light/heater in the ceiling, two sconces, a humidistat for the fan and possibly a heated floor.

Currently the lighting is an over the mirror light and a ceiling light. Both are run off of a GELV switch. I plan to remove the GELV system from the room.

So my question is two fold.
I have done a good amount of wiring in my house already, and believe that I have done the work correctly and followed code.

A) Where can I find the Maryland Code requirements?

B) Do I have to have my work inspected?
If so, how do I go about setting that up?

All advice is appreciated. :)

thanks

You can Google Maryland code requirements to see if they follow normal code guidelines. Your permit office (search building permits/your city to find out where) will want to be involved in this project as it involves plumbing and electrical work.

Your work requires permits and inspections - no doubt! Drop by the permit office (City Hall/building permits) - they usually have handouts that outline the permit process for your project as well as any requirements outside of "the norm". It's painless (for the most part) and will pay off in the long run.

I can't stress enough - the permit office is your friend!!! They want you to be successful - and legal. They can be a wealth of information relating to your project if you approach them up front and honestly about what you plan to do. I've always found inspectors to be reasonable people (they're human after all) - and if your work is up to code - they will appreciate your efforts. If it's not up to code - they will point out the deficiencies and probably suggest how to make it right.

Thank You.

That is what I thought was necessary.

Do you know what the plumbing inspections would entail?

I renovated my kitchen about a year ago. We did not have any inspections, but I did not really change anything. I just switched out the cabinets/countertops, floor and fixtures.

Should this have been inspected? Will I get into any trouble for it not being inspected? :wall:

As long as you didn't change the plumbing behind the walls, you probably have nothing to worry about on your kitchen remodel...

For plumbing information, I would suggest a DIY book on plumbing available at any box store... they show the major code items of interest for most home projects - and offer good advice on how to make it go smoothly.

Plumbing inspectors want to make sure your pipes are the proper size, vented properly, with proper slope, hangers, and traps. (For the most part)...

Be prepared for an answer you won't like. In some Maryland jurisdictions (maybe all?), homeowners CANNOT do their own plumbing (and sometimes electrical) even it they plan to get it inspected. I ran into this building a house in Frederick County, but that was over 20 years ago so maybe things have changed.

Md2lgyk is correct - some regions require licensed personnel to do darned near everything for permit approval (damnded unions and their PAC's). Only way to find out is to check with your permit office - again, the handouts should outline the requirements. Be not afraid - you can ask questions anonymously. Sometimes a homeowner is required to take a simple test that shows they have a grasp of codes for their project. ( I had to take a "Open book" test to work on my electrical renovations - and it was simple).

Thank goodness for places like WV. For the house I'm building now, the only licensed folks I need are the well driller and septic installer. Don't even need a licensed general contractor.

Good news for you!! Pick up that book, apply for your permits (don't avoid them this time) - and get your new project underway!!

I plan to do it by the book, and I believe that I did everything by the book for the kitchen.

The last thing that I want to do is put something unsafe in my house. I have read books on both Electrical and plumbing, and like I said, believe that it is done right, and that I can do the work right.

However I am worried that the inspector will see the kitchen, and want to tear out the cabinets to see the plumbing and electrical.

I know I shouldn't say this - but - your kitchen was that way when you bought the house, right?????????

Inspectors have a lot more on their minds than how pretty your kitchen is... He's there to see your new work. Be professional, have your work clean and organized. He will knock on your door, you will lead him to the project and show him around - ask a couple of questions to let him know that you respect his opinion - and worry not about anything else. THEY ARE YOUR ALLIES. Don't take an adversarial attitude.. it's truly not necessary in my experience.... In fact, they're pretty nice guys, in my opinion...

Once you've done a couple of projects with good results - you'll have a relationship with them... My local inspector just came to check my newest project - a concrete footing for a new bedroom addition.... He drove up, said howdy and asked what was going on..... looked at my excavation for about 10 seconds... and signed off on the permit!! If your work is quality and organized - you'll have zero issues....

E
just did this for my sisters house and the Bldg dept was quite helpful if you treated them with utmost respect... as i have read on previous postings here in this Forum the inspectors want to feel important and that THEY are making all the calls.... bottom line, they do decide it in the end... RIGHT or WRONG.... i had to move lighting (after all wired and tacked down properly) to the other side of the room as it was 10" too close to the tub.... AHHHH...haha... .just smiled and did it !! haha

anyway, three things that came to mind when reading your posting and remembering my remodeling M.Bthrm and Kitchen....

1. they NEVER come to the house with plans... everytime each inspector ( i dealt with 4 >> plumbing, electrical, building and Fire) asked for MY SUBMITTED copy (must be kept on sight) and then spoke with me about progress....never did they come with original plans ..... just used what I made and submitted as part of the permit process.....

95% sure they won't notice your kitchen.....but be prepared to say something if they do happen to ask ... you replaced the cabinets and counter top... something simple...


2. i was able to draw (to scale) my own plans and submit as permit application... usually they require architect which can START @ $3000 ..... took me 3 trips and many phone calls with each inspector as they all wanted something different.... overall wiring overlay with switches, lights and receptacles on the plans.... Fire and carbon detector mappings also (insuring all in the house are now hardwired with bttry backups AND "linked" !!! all levels !! Plumbing did not require me to put on the plans the lines... just the tub, toilets, sinks, etc....


3. anyway, if your new tub mentioned in your posting is within 5 ft of the windows you MUST have Safety Glass installed >> check your local codes ...... if you are redoing windows MAKE SURE you do this now... Everyone missed this on my remodel and i spent another $700 after a new triple-bay window was installed ... just to change the glass panels !!! Really got me but no one mentioned to me until all new windows were already ordered/received and installed ....


in my area IF we are homeowners AND live in the house then we can do the work ourselves -- otherwise everything must be done by licensed tradesmen.

hope yours goes well !! good luck!!
robert

Looks like bull****t to me....

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/permits/pdm_permitsprocess/index.html

"All types of electrical installations, including low voltage wiring, are required to be installed by a contractor licensed in Baltimore County. "

"All types of plumbing and gasfitting installations are to be installed by a contractor licensed in Baltimore County."

From your web site:

Q. Do I need a permit to do electrical work in my own home?

A. A permit (PDF)is required for all electrical work except for persons making minor repairs and replacements to existing wiring in their own home. Generally, this exception applies to replacing an existing switch, receptacle, or light fixture, but not to extending or installing circuit wiring. Working without a permit is a violation and subject to a civil penalty of $1,000.00. Further information can be obtained by calling Electrical Inspections at 410-887-3960, Monday through Friday, between 7:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m.



you're not extending wiring in the walls, are you? Call the number... see what they have to say.....

Otherwise, it's obviously a problem living in a region where unions have a say in government regulation.... (I hate unions... )....

From your web site: but not to extending or installing circuit wiring.

Will I not be doing this if I am removing the low voltage system in the room, and re-wiring it? I will be putting in new cable and breakers, including dedicated circuits for the floor and whirlpool tub.

Yeah, you are, according to your web site, required to have a licensed person do that work for you..... The good news, if there is any, is that you can sometimes have the cable run, boxes installed, etc., so the electrician has to basically tie wires together and sign off on it.... It's a PITA to try to work out with an electrician though.... Good luck!

Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here...you've been getting lots of great advice. I agree 100%...get any permits necessary, be cordial, friendly and ask the inspectors to explain what you SHOULD do if they tell you something is wrong.

If you don't go through the process, you will have problems when you sell your house. Also, and more worrisome to me, is that in the event of a fire, that improved property will not be covered. You stand to lose a lot more than the permit fees.

Connie

Hi, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here...you've been getting lots of great advice. I agree 100%...get any permits necessary, be cordial, friendly and ask the inspectors to explain what you SHOULD do if they tell you something is wrong.

If you don't go through the process, you will have problems when you sell your house. Also, and more worrisome to me, is that in the event of a fire, that improved property will not be covered. You stand to lose a lot more than the permit fees.

Connie

This is what I am worried about.
I have decided against putting in the floor warming system, so really the only new connection will be for the whirlpool.
I looked at the install directions for the whirlpool pump, and surprisingly, the pump uses a plug, not hardwired. The requirements for the plug are, "120v 15amp GFCI protected"

So really, the job requires me to run 12/2 cable from the panel, connected to a GFCI breaker, about 15 feet to a surface mounted electrical box on the ceiling below the tub.

And for that, I need to pay an electrician a couple hundred bucks to have it legal...:wall:

Better to pay now than regret it later.

If you're concerned the inspector will note other work that was not permitted, I can tell you that doesn't typically happen. The inspector is there to look at the work that you have had permitted. While I am sure an inspector might make mention of a blatant violation, he's not at your house to look for trouble.

Connie

Connie said: "Also, and more worrisome to me, is that in the event of a fire, that improved property will not be covered. You stand to lose a lot more than the permit fees."

Yow and when you go blow the whistle on yourself the increase in your property taxes next year will more than absorb anything you would save in the long run.:D Don't say anything to anybody, just do it and shut up.!:D
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Mr. Cline is a very funny guy, so I'm sure he's just joking when he suggests you circumvent the system to save a few bucks:)

Your fan/light/heater will probably also require a dedicated circuit.

If you don't go through the process, you will have problems when you sell your house.

Hardly. I've bought and sold nearly a dozen houses in 5 different states, and this has NEVER happened. I've yet to ever see a disclosure statement that even asked about unpermitted work.

I'm not going to advise you one way or the other. I just know what I'd do (and have done numerous times).

I'm currently renovating a bathroom and have found some 'interesting' wiring work left from the previous owner. I haven't pulled any permits for the work, but I know I'm at least leaving things in a much better situation than they were before. Don't ask, don't tell...

We don't condone circumventing the system, but it's ultimately up to the homeowner...

Majority of projects people ask help for are probably not "permitted", just look in my garage at my subpanel...and outside receptacles for starters. ;)

Hardly. I've bought and sold nearly a dozen houses in 5 different states, and this has NEVER happened. I've yet to ever see a disclosure statement that even asked about unpermitted work.

I find that interesting. I, too, have bought/sold nearly a dozen homes in 5 different states over the past 5 years... and every disclosure form I've filled out has asked that question.

Must be different states....

Having bought/sold that number of homes, you can imagine some of the interesting remodel work I've come across that was, obviously, not permitted. Well intentioned individuals who circumvented the system, thinking they could handle it themselves. In more than one instance, I've come across potentially deadly circumstances, simply because the homeowner decided to take a short cut.

HotinOKC is correct though... I would guess the majority of folks looking for advice here do not get permitted (LOW/HD can't be selling that much stuff to properly installed folks) - and we could debate the issue to no end. As he said - it's up to the individual. I'm lucky - I can spot deficiencies when I buy a house and correct those issues - most folks can't!!!

I'm lucky - I can spot deficiencies when I buy a house and correct those issues - most folks can't!!!

That's hardly luck. I, too, have made a point of educating myself about construction methods, codes, etc. over the years starting with my very first house in 1976. Nobody should DIY just so they can take shortcuts or get away with substandard work. On the other hand, if somebody thinks they can't properly change out a receptacle without getting it inspected, then that's what they should do (or hire it done).

I just took a look at a MD disclosure statement. No question about unpermitted work. Ditto WV. Interestingly, the WV form asked if the plumbing had ever been professionally repaired. Why ask something like that?