Heat Pumps and Electric Heating - cfm too high on air handler- speed control?

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Matt Gruber
04-05-08, 01:34 PM
Has anyone ever added a speed control? I'd like to slow it down. 208-253v Ever seen 1 in a catalog?
.
The quandry is, the new "efficient" AH's all seem to be much higher cfm.
I'm about to order a new system and would like to get this right.

The LOW on the aruf374316 is 17 to 27% higher. this will be windy and not suck out much moisture due to the warmer coil temp. And it will be a cold wind on heat.

Ideas so far:
1. add speed control- will this make it hum?

2. put old blower into new unit with new motor, assuming cage is smaller.

3. get weenie AH with less efficiency(still 11% higher cfm)
3a. find VS blower that goes real slow, they are 3/4 HP vs. 1/2 hp on the 3 speed. Could not find minimum speed cfm listed so far.

4. try it as is and see if it works ok

or?

thanks lots!


airman.1994
04-05-08, 02:54 PM
The quandry is, the new "efficient" AH's all seem to be much higher cfm.

All should be about 400 cfm per ton! Nothing new about this!

Matt Gruber
04-05-08, 03:31 PM
The quandry is, the new "efficient" AH's all seem to be much higher cfm.

All should be about 400 cfm per ton! Nothing new about this!

RIGHT! i hope!
now, who sells them?

this 3Ton is 1925cfm H,
1550 M,
1345 L

should be 1200 cfm!


Ed Imeduc
04-05-08, 04:02 PM
What you should have there is a V/S blower coil unit. then you can play with the blower speed with the dip switch in it. Also you can cut the speed down more with a humidistat at the unit or with some of the new tstat. But like said you should have about 400cfm per ton. A 3 ton blower coil Trane is 1060 CFM at a 0.1 external static pressurel ow and 1370CFM on high at the same 0.1 static. So you have to check and see what staic pressure your duct was layed out for .

Matt Gruber
04-05-08, 04:36 PM
Thanks Ed!
i'm going to check into the VS blower. with 50% more hp, 3/4 hp, i kind of expect even more flow, LOL
But, hopefully not. A humidistat in the unit sounds needed for my high RH.
I'm using 0.3 sp on the chart to compare, but i don't know what mine is.

1 dealer did say he sells a VS control to fit on 3 spd motors. I would just set it around ~1000 cfm and hopefully forget about it.

A side note,
I don't like real dry air as i tend to get colds. no colds in years! old system seems just right; no colds, no mold

Matt Gruber
04-06-08, 07:16 AM
my old ruud is 1/4 hp 11x7" cage, 1151 cfm set on H, at 0.3
.
The proposed goodman VS is 3/4hp, 1020-2100 cfm.
Seems way too big, but maybe it could be set on 1020 permantly? costs $300 extra, i'm not pleased about that.
Really i think i'd need 700-900 cfm as a min to make use of a humidstat, just a wild guess at this point

Matt Gruber
04-07-08, 10:43 AM
the aruf363616 looks GREAT!
med 1140 vs 1151 on my old ruud
low 955 17% less if slow speed is needed to lower RH with the larger 13 seer coil(ruud was seer9) If i understand you guys right, too much air will not dehumidify with my double size system.

i'm not sure what high 1645 could be used for?

i have 2 277v 20a relays that i could wire for L M H if needed. Might be a nice toy, but

I plan to set it on LOW and see how it works.
If this is not a good plan i haven't ordered anything yet.
So please speak now.......i sure appreciate the helpful advice

i don't like the VS AH because the VS circuit is INSIDE the motor. HARD to service! NO WAY i'll buy a $300 option that cant easiy be bypassed in an emergency.

furd
04-08-08, 01:13 AM
I think you are taking a penny wise, pound foolish attitude. The variable speed motors ARE quite expensive compared to a standard three or four speed motor but they will slow down to a crawl. You will not be able to find any aftermarket device that will give you this kind of control for any less money.

I can set my VS on "fan only" and get a gentle air movement that is barely audible. I tried using a cheap fan speed controller on my old furnace and the motor growled so bad I thought it needed some Tums.

Nor do I think that the fact that it can't be bypassed in an emergency holds much weight. Heck, the motor on your three-speed can burn out and leave you in the same fix. There are thousands of these VS motors in service, maybe even tens of thousands and I suspect the failure rate is no greater than the failure rate of the three or four speed motors.

I will state that these solid state motors and furnace control boards are much more susceptible to failure when being run on electricity supplied by inexpensive (read: poorly controlled voltage and frequency) generators so if you want to run your system during a power outage, take heed.

Matt Gruber
04-08-08, 03:06 AM
the VS MINIMUM is 1020 cfm (2100 max)
fixed is 955
i want the crawl speed .
fixed wins the speed race.
Thanks for mentioning the growl!
.
also frequent lightning strikes make me wary of hard to get to pc. But if the speed slowed to 750 cfm i'd at least THINK about it. 1020 is a joke. if the controller was easy to get to i'd just swap it out, but why bother with it in the first place? too fast. poor value.

Matt Gruber
04-09-08, 06:28 AM
Ed
i'm going to ask the ac guy to check the static pressure.
Since my old ruud ran 19 yrs on 1 speed, 1151cfm,
hopefully 2 useful speeds 1140 and 955 will be enough to choose from.
.
I emailed scott @ that r22 vs r410 link. Hopefully he will add info about the extra $$$$ r410 costs to run.
Thanks Ed!

zoneout
04-22-08, 11:06 AM
If you are getting a new AH go with a VS blower. My 3 speed AH was only 4 years old so I didn't want to junk it just for VS. Instead I installed 4 - 24vac relays to automatically select speed based on function as follows:

AC = high speed
Fan, heat = Med speed
Humidfy, dehumidify = low speed

Works like a champ.

Matt Gruber
04-24-08, 07:52 AM
got the new goodman aruf363616 in! set on low(955-1040cfm). works great 1st test! nice and quiet.
very nice quality!
164# vs 98# on my old ruud.
Had to change flow piston from 74 to 73 supplied with condensor.

for those that want VS, i've learned the vs has a trimmer to cut min 15%, so it could go down to ~867 cfm. BUT it is not a true VS! just a few extra fixed speeds and NOTHING between 867 and 1020 cfm! Very glad i didn't get it.

zoneout
04-29-08, 01:11 AM
Check out the Evergreen VS replacement motor. I think this is what you are looking for,